Make Raiding Great Again

[My Profile Is A Lie]

We all hate losing our items, after we worked so hard to get that bread and make a base. There's also A LOT of raiding tools for people to use, however, throughout my time of playing, this is the WORST meta I've seen for basing. I see the same typical base designs in the same spots (cause they're the best), and it takes hundreds of thousands of raiding tools to beat them. Solo-defending a good base is easier than being the 2-3 man raiding party on the other end without the use of c4, smoke, talismans. So you just blew 200k on raiding tools to get someone's base, and get their entities. Now you have to bring them to your base, hoping you won't die from RDM or some kind of Rp confrontation. If you finally get those juicy printers and maybe even a processor, now you can finally harvest the cash. Oh... 25% less from other people's printers. To add insult to injury, you gain 50% more from your own printers. This encourages a playstyle of getting on, putting down a dupe, and afk grinding for hours. It's an anti-social playstyle, people aren't contributing to any form of entertainment on the server via rp, chat, raiding, etc., except a base to raid... and potentially lose money for raiding... even if you're successful. The basing/raiding aspect of the server from what I've seen is at an all time low and it just makes it boring. Make printers give MORE money for not owning it, if you get a reward, it should be for a risk, not for camping behind a dupe you bought off bunzix while you jerk off watching your money come in.

[Hoopajoop]

There are a lot of factors at work when it comes to basing and raiding-- I've actually been trying to gather actual data and videos to punctuate points over the past week, but it's been really slow-going. Since you're breaching the topic tho, I'll share my thoughts on the matter so far.

 

In short, in the current state of things both basing and raiding are OP in their own way and require eachother to be OP to maintain anything anything even attempting to pass itself off as balanced.

 

On the raiding side, you've got C4 that can be cooked down to a fraction of a second before getting punted into a base. Raiders can use smokes or even slap down deployable barricades at the entrance to ensure that the C4 cannot be shot out and away. The cost of C4 isn't even really so much of a factor anymore as you can easily wind up with a pretty healthy stock of explosives after a night or three of sitting on procs.

 

On the basing side, you've got one-ways, thin shooting slits, and typically long winding designs. Bonus points if you've got a legendary sniper rifle. Technically these can be raided with just a lockpick and/or keypad cracker as the rules demand, but practically they require the use of explosives to get through unless the defenders are afk. Any decent base design will be built so that a raider can be shot, but has no real hope for meaningful retaliation, so they pretty much have no choice but to use C4/makeshifts.

 

This dynamic also puts something of a limit on which buildings can and cannot support a decent base due to the building's size vs the explosive radius, which further discourages people from basing. The advantage is generally goes to the raider, but if you can snag a really long base (like that one in the sewers) the advantage flips to the defender in a big way.

 

If you nerf explosives, basing gets even more OP.

 

If you change basing rules, explosives get even more OP.

 

If there is to be any meaningful change to the meta, there needs to be a change on both fronts.

 

Until then, the meta's gonna remain a contest of who can lean harder on their crutch.

[It's cold in here(._.)]

On the other hand there are newer players who can't make dupes because they aren't vip and don't know how to make a good base. They end up basing near fountain and being raised and quitting. So you know what, at this point I'ma say fuck it and just say what all raiders and new players kinda want. No more crouch bases. Even for the people who bought crouch base dupes, they usually are only secured by 10 props until it's a normal base. How about this too, non VIPs are able to buy2 turrents that have a small range and do 10-20, damage with the firespeed of an acr and 75hp and cost 5k. These turrents have a whitelist of players you can add to it so the turrents won't shoot it. And maybe even make Titsrp have suggestions and a walkthrough on the top right like Minecraft. 

 

P.S if you want to farm money do leaderboards, there are many fun and social says to earn money. I earned 7m in a week which many not be much to others but this really helps start up your rp.

---

Make c4's unpuntanble

[My Profile Is A Lie]

There are a lot of factors at work when it comes to basing and raiding-- I've actually been trying to gather actual data and videos to punctuate points over the past week, but it's been really slow-going. Since you're breaching the topic tho, I'll share my thoughts on the matter so far.

 

In short, in the current state of things both basing and raiding are OP in their own way and require eachother to be OP to maintain anything anything even attempting to pass itself off as balanced.

 

On the raiding side, you've got C4 that can be cooked down to a fraction of a second before getting punted into a base. Raiders can use smokes or even slap down deployable barricades at the entrance to ensure that the C4 cannot be shot out and away. The cost of C4 isn't even really so much of a factor anymore as you can easily wind up with a pretty healthy stock of explosives after a night or three of sitting on procs.

 

On the basing side, you've got one-ways, thin shooting slits, and typically long winding designs. Bonus points if you've got a legendary sniper rifle. Technically these can be raided with just a lockpick and/or keypad cracker as the rules demand, but practically they require the use of explosives to get through unless the defenders are afk. Any decent base design will be built so that a raider can be shot, but has no real hope for meaningful retaliation, so they pretty much have no choice but to use C4/makeshifts.

 

This dynamic also puts something of a limit on which buildings can and cannot support a decent base due to the building's size vs the explosive radius, which further discourages people from basing. The advantage is generally goes to the raider, but if you can snag a really long base (like that one in the sewers) the advantage flips to the defender in a big way.

 

If you nerf explosives, basing gets even more OP.

 

If you change basing rules, explosives get even more OP.

 

If there is to be any meaningful change to the meta, there needs to be a change on both fronts.

 

Until then, the meta's gonna remain a contest of who can lean harder on their crutch.

So since basing and raiding are "even", then an economical nerf to raiding vs a buff to basing would make basing ahead. Lol

[The Herbalist]

Basing in of itself is not meant to be a social experience where you contribute to entertainment. You can't change basing into something where the whole family is involved.

Making printers give more money when they aren't yours won't help either, it took me two seconds to figure out how I can exploit that (me and a friend base together, lets swap prints!). Basing VS Raiding is an age old debate which can't truly be solved. Each raiding tool serves a singular purpose, to counter a different style of base. For example, Makeshift bombs are there to reduce effectiveness of 1 way props, c4 is there to remove props or for example those shooting slits, as is blowtorches. 

 

In my opinion, if you want to fix raiding/basing they both need a nerf, not a buff. Remove one ways, that way people need to utilise cameras and smart base positioning, to counter that, remove the material grenades/bombs, so if the baser cant see through magically the raider wont be able to either. Most people won't want this however, and like all these discussions, nothing really changes. It seems a common theme in this community is things being too far fucked to be able to fix without a complete overhaul.

[{GN} Isaac]

No dont listen to herb 

 

Keep one ways 

 

buff everything 

:)

[Hoopajoop]

I believe a simple building rule stating "If you can see and shoot them, they must be able to see and shoot you" along with dialing back C4/Makeshift explosion radius (so smaller buildings can potentially be viable again) and making them ungravable could work wonders for the basing/raiding meta.

 

A step in the right direction, if nothing else.

[Jacket]

i dont know man....

all i know is raiding is OP and c4s should be nerfed

[1-800-Suicide]

So you said that you blew 200k trying to get into someones base when to my knowledge just a processor sells for 200k non upgraded. I dont see how the math works here when if we use a base value of about 400-500k if someone bought all their entities and upgraded them and you spend 200k to try to get into someones base, if you get in and get out youve profited about 250k in entities and thats if you are only raiding people who only have their own entities, which is pretty rare especially if you're using 200k of materials to raid it. Also defending a base is always going to be easier than raiding it, making an argument that its easier to solo defend a base than to raid it is beyond me. I also think there is skill tied to raiding and honestly I dont find it even close to impossible to raid most bases that I have seen as a solo person. 

 

Overall I think this is one of the most healthy metas in terms of economics of raiding and basing and no changes need to be made.

 

Tl;dr: Its literally economically better to raid than to buy entities by a large margin and ur probly just bad and need to git gud

[Hoopajoop]

I feel like there was a lot of asspulling and anecdotes with the numbers regarding the "economics" of a raid, 'cause I've seen some wildly different prices in entity trading and doesn't take into account explosives and other raiding tools pulled basically for free from either crafting or processing or quests or bought at a discount, etc. So I'm not gonna touch too much on that for now.

 

But....

 

I also think there is skill tied to raiding

 

As it stands now, I disagree with this. There is more knowledge and resources tied to raiding than skill. The difference between a good raider and a bad raider depends more on which one knew to take the "Launcher" gang talent and which one has more explosives at their disposal than anything we can really quantify as "skill", I think.

 

 

I dont find it even close to impossible to raid most bases that I have seen as a solo person. 

 

Well yeah. This is largely because tossing a smoke grenade and punting in a cooked C4 is not terribly difficult. Take this with a grain of salt, I've never seen you raid before and I'm in no way trying to imply that you're unskilled, but from what I've observed in my basing/raiding experiences is that there's not a whole lot that can be done against a raider with enough C4 on hand unless you have a group you can call for backup. On top of that, a majority of the buildings on the map are so small that even measuring and planning for C4 radii, it will only take two or three at max to wreck all of the props, and that -really- puts non-VIPs and new players at a disadvantage because they can't use dupes.

 

And that's not to disparage raiders, by any means. With the current building rules, they basically have no choice but to fling in explosives, as trying to crouchwalk and blowtorch/lockpick/crack your way into any of these serpentine one-way'd deathtraps is suicide.

 

Overall I think this is one of the most healthy metas in terms of economics of raiding and basing and no changes need to be made.

 

Again, I can't speak much to the economics of the matter, but if the basing/raiding meta were healthy and fun we'd see -far- more basing and raiding going on. One of the data points I was working on collecting was counting the number of active bases at any given hour I was on and those numbers were low. Like... Really low compared to the server's population. If I had to guess I'd say most players were more content with selling their entities directly than trying to base around them. I'll post the metrics I have once I have a full week's worth of data, but so far it hasn't been looking like anything healthy.