Staff laziness and their contradictory decision making

[Professional Jay Walker]

Initial Response to this:

Well, no matter what staff say, whether it being a good thing or a bad thing, people still downvote and that is dumb. You guys being able to use your rep ability on an appeal should be good enough, show your support by +rep'ing someone, not by getting yourselves warning points for putting a reply on that you know will get taken down.
A good portion of players do this, and if you are reading this, you know who you are, you know that you have a chance of getting a warning for the shitpost you posted on an appeal/report, and then when it is taken down, you then make complaints and raise issues that are of no one else's doing but your own. People find ways to make problems for themselves and then try blame staff for doing their duty, it makes no sense. The post here mentioned contradiction, but with how people handle stuff on forums and get them selves in punishments, and then make the staff team look bad for your mistakes, that is contradiction. 

I know people want OG unbanned but as stated on his appeal, he was bought back for 1 BILLION and not even a week or so later, he exploited on his alt and then got re-banned. I do not see any logic in people shitting on staff members who -1 that appeal at all. 
 

Tene was unbanned yes, and that was out of pretty big community support and a really good portion of staff support, but if you see, that same support does not sit on OG's appeal, surely that should make you realise something. Tene knows he's on thin ice and probs being watched by people like hawks, BUT, OG had 1 week back on the server and already got himself re-banned. 

 

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How can we move forward?:

I see the only way to move forward from this huge hate train against staff (which consists of older staff members) is keep appeals the way they are right now, and if you have something you wanna post that is 100% relevant to that specific appeal, either PM a staff member for permission to post that response, or request them to put it on the appeal on your behalf, I see no issue doing that. Just with this whole "staff laziness and their contradictory decision making" it is just an issue, and that shouldn't be an issue, as I said, its only a certain group of people that have issues with it, and choose to make problems when something happens from their own actions.

 

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Overall, issues that shouldn't be issues at all are rising all the time, and it really doesn't need to happen. 
 

[Tene]

7 hours ago, Funk Dungus said:

Tene came back to the server and immediately began being an asshole to people again. I do not hate anyone here but I feel like this could've been handled better than this.

 

I think the community should have a say, less than staff but still present, in ban appeals. 

i'm not even sure what you mean by that, if you mean i am an asshole to you because i got you banned then sure i guess i have been a dick, but i don't think i have been toxic at all to players since my unban (unless you include calling my friends 'stupid idiot' which they can tell is a joke). if i have please dm me what i said so i can learn what the community sees as toxic, as i am trying to befriend newer players who joined while i was banned to better rejoin the community.

 

7 hours ago, Kilobyte said:

I find it weird that staff are very easily able to +1 and let back Tene with his money exploiting ban after having a ban for placing textscreens advertising p3dophile rights, as well as previous bans for drama mongering and other toxicity

I 100% think that OG should be unbanned, however, i think the big difference between him and I is that after my 6 month 'inappropriate content' ban was lifted, I did not receive any warns/mutes/bans until my exploiting ban in october, so for the months between march-september (i money exploited in sept) i did not break rules (or if I did they must've been minor enough to only give me a verbal, where I learned and did not do it again). OG was banned after a week.  + I think one of the things that staff keep pointing out is the fact he alted during his ban, i never did. 
also (i know nothing of this ban so killabite please respond) you banned OG in 2020 for abusing money exploits, he was later banned for toxicity, unbanned, then exploited money again. my previous bans have not been for exploiting. the reason the staff team are -1ing him is because they are being told stories of how toxic he was, and probably looking at his previous bans. 
og's situation and my situation, while having some similarities, are in my opinion different, but i still feel as though he should be unbanned. If I'm not mistaken, the alt accounts that were banned for being OG's had very little warns/bans on them, if any, which proves that he was 'reformed' and had changed his ways. I'm not sure what the concern is around what OG will do if he is unbanned, if he is toxic at all he will most likely be re-perma'd immediately, and im not sure why he would go through the effort of making appeals to then hop on the server and talk shit again, OG isn't as dumb as a lot of players think he is. If he finds a money exploit (which is very difficult to do so unless already having a plan to test various game mechanics), then I am sure he would instead report it than abuse it again, because as he stated in his ban appeal, he was already making more money per day by basing than he was by money exploiting, and didn't actually spread the wealth gained from the exploit to anyone, and so the economy was probably not even damaged (from him alone). I just don't think OG is dumb enough to write an entire appeal and just waste it on some pathetic shit.

 

[Kilobyte]

19 minutes ago, Tene said:

(i know nothing of this ban so killabite please respond) you banned OG in 2020 for abusing money exploits

That ban was when Doc McStubbins was handing out bans for a VIP Shotgun exploit that people were using to obtain the normally unobtainable shotgun and sell the shotgun for money. That ban was actually false hand removed from OG, because he had never used it for money. You can see he has an NLR ban the next day on the bans page. OG has 6 real bans total, excluding alts, within 6 years of being in the community

Edited January 8, 2022 by Kilobyte

[toosii]

1 hour ago, Funk Dungus said:

 

I think the community should have a say, less than staff but still present, in ban appeals. 

I agree honestly. Staff input should be prioritized, but the community (non staff members) should be able to give some type of input on appeals.
Of course, some appeals would just have their friends +1 it for no reason other than that's their friend... but I've seen staff members do the same thing.

I think players (especially ones who've been playing for a long time) can help give staff insight on whoever made the appeal. There is a lot of players on here who've been in the community for way longer than most staff members, and they could give some good information regarding the appealing player, and how they've acted in the past, if their behavior has changed, etc.

Edited January 8, 2022 by RAY RAY

[Kilobyte]

 

4 hours ago, Professional Jay Walker said:

Just with this whole "staff laziness and their contradictory decision making" it is just an issue, and that shouldn't be an issue

Exactly! It should not be an issue, and some of your fellow staff are part of the issue. It's not up to us to fix it, we didn't magically create the issue with our minds. One of the same admins I'm talking about with laziness decided to -1 the post instead of giving any actual insight into why his response was so lazy or why he thought copy and pasting a response was somehow acceptable in an important permanent ban appeal. This proves the exact point I'm making, yet you choose to ignore it and blow it off because "it's only a certain group of people that have the problem." Are you sure about that?

Don't forget the staff that are also making responses leaning towards a decision so they can wait for which majority vote there is, so they don't get shit on for their response not being liked by other staff.

 

 

4 hours ago, Professional Jay Walker said:

Tene was unbanned yes, and that was out of pretty big community support and a really good portion of staff support, but if you see, that same support does not sit on OG's appeal, surely that should make you realise something.

You're defending unbanning a person with toxicity AND p3dophilia related bans who did the same exact thing as OG but with OG having normal toxicity bans. Loling

Players that were seen as good enough by the entire community for the respected role agree with the points in this post. THAT should make you realize something. 

OG alted, so have many other players that have caused issues and are currently unbanned. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Kilobyte

[Succ The Zucc]

Staff laziness only properly applies to staff not taking sits and talking in OOC when you literally put up 3 sit requests and it hasnt been taken. You as a previous admin should know that Kilo. Literally if your complaint is treating Tene as an equal to OG then lets go to their extents. OG has pushed people off of being staff members and pushed people off the server to the point where no one on the staff team wanted to take his sits out of fear of an appeal or report every time he was punished as he did for me. They didn't want to deal with the headache. Tene, I haven't seen being toxic since I've been back. If he is then it's not being shown to me. He wasn't even that toxic when I was an admin. OGs overall ban history to Tene also isn't something I compare when making decisions as it would be redundant. I make decisions based on the one persons history, personal experience and what they did to get banned in the first place. OG had to get bought back with the buy back being a final chance and he blew it in less than a month of being back. Dude's been permed multiple times. How many perma bans do you need to give a guy before they're done.

 

The contradictory nature of the staff team has always existed. It all is from implicit bias that we get from every decision we do. Being in the players shoes and the defendant in the situation and sometimes being their friend; you're a judge. You're gonna make a fuck up here and there too I dont blame people for that shit too often. But if you're being a fuck face when you were staff previously I'm going to punish you harder than I would a normal player. That's not bias that's looking at their history then making a harsher punishment because they should know what they did wasn't allowed in the first place. For example if you said the N-word in chat I would ban you for a day because you not only were staff but you've been on the server long enough to know damn well you don't say that shit. Being contradictory is giving a random player a bone then another random player doing the same shit with the same attitude a harsher punishment for no apparent reason. Which these are two totally different players with 2 totally different histories with totally different bans and reasons. Tene could have been just permed for exploiting and came back. With OG he had been bought out as a final chance and blew it in less than a month. That's not contradictory that's looking at the situation differently as staff should do.

[Smelly]

1 hour ago, 1-800-Suicide said:

You will want to see this guy permabanned forever after seeing this clip #fail

 

Incorrect. I state why I -1/+1 ban appeals very clearly and lay out what I see that affected my decision. I spoke to most users in DMs to explain what about their behavior needs to change in order for my decision to change. You guys spamming this video everywhere at every waking moment in support of your friend doesn’t help change my decision. Sorry you feel this way

[Tene]

1 hour ago, Kilobyte said:

 

You're defending unbanning a person with toxicity AND p3dophilia related bans who did the same exact thing as OG but with OG having normal toxicity bans. Loling

my inappropriate content ban was because i was being edgy and attention seeking, which rubik could probably tell and that is why it was a 6 month ban and not a permanent one,  it was not because i was 13 and thinking 'hey people who are adults and want to do inappropriate things with kids should get rights", This has been stated in my ban appeals about that situation, i hate pedophiles, but u seem to think my idiotic behavior about giving them rights is serious or something with the amount of times u are bringing it up, i dont.
I have 2 bans that relate to toxicity, and they are my 2 harassment bans, 1 i appealed because i felt the situation was exaggerated when in reality i didn't say anything that I consider to be deep-cutting words (i believe i called someone a whore, however it was a long time ago so i may be incorrect), this appeal was accepted. My other harassment ban wasn't even for toxicity, but it was for targetting someone in game, (i played music above someones public base repeatedly and was reported on the forums). OG's bans for toxicity are him being toxic to a number of people consistently. Just because we both have had previous bans does not mean our situations are the same at all, i have (imo) shown that I have changed from being the cringe attention seeking kid putting weird shit on textscreens by not doing anything like it again, I also believe I am no longer the 'toxic' person you describe me as. I don't wish to hurt people's feelings over garrys mod drama. 
Again, OG alted during his ban and exploited on the account he alted on, i like OG a lot, but i am sure you too can admit that he was really dumb for alting. Our situations are not identical. I got banned for money exploiting after being a 'good player' and not receiving punishments or anything for a long amount of time after unban, OG got banned for alting + money exploiting a week or so after being bought back in. stop comparing us like our history is the same.


free og tho he actually seems reformed asf and wont money exploit again, if he is unbanned it is basically understood by him that any tiny thing he does wrong will most likely lead him to getting a ban (such as probably even rdm), og knows this, unban og and let him show himself to the new staff team who have only heard stories and not actually experienced his newer persona.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Tene
remembered why i was banned for targetted harassment

[Kilobyte]

i was gonna react with +1 like but i cant so i have to respond like this

[zZzO G]

29 minutes ago, cobaselic said:

lol almost like he was told last time 

Actually, when I was unbanned I was told that being toxic again would get me re banned. I was not told about any other rule.