Meta change for the better?

[Fuel]

So I noticed the server is really struggling when it comes to basing creativity. For the most part the only base chosen by larger groups is Kingdom. This base is a favored pick because there is 1. Only one possible spawn area once entering the portal making it easy to surround with one ways for a killbox type design / 2. The King job has a higher prop limit than 75 (125 according to sugar) leaving it to be a favored pick among the basing community as more props can guarantee your base will at the very least have more options for security / 3. Plenty of area to fit goods and minibases inside essentially creating a community in which each baser can have their own area and if the king makes skybasing legal, you're essentially gonna be able to use every inch of that bases space to fit as many members as you feel are adequate. 

 

The issue lies in raids on kingdom. Currently you would have to /advert Kingdom Raid outside of the kingdom in order to be under the rules to freely destroy the props inside and take their entities for your own safekeeping. Raiders are at a clear disadvantage given the fact that killbox dupes will have one way props that allow bullets to navigate through on all sides, in combination with skilled basers, legendary weapons, and plenty of time for preperation. This discourages all forms of raiding as even the best raiders cannot within their right mind not be at a disadvantage even if they do manage to make their way in. A cheap trick is that a picolas cage will go to the statue and have someone bwcome the kings assassin. The kings assassin will have legendary weapons and special perks in order to make them harder to hit, and the picolas cage will teleport the current king. The assassin will then kill the king, automatically get the job, then have their party members either pickup box the loot or secure it till the king can come back to paste down the dupe. The King himself is clearly at a major disadvantage here compared to a pickle teleporting them with 15 cereal (Market value of maybe 450000?) in return for maybe millions of dollars worth of goods. 

 

These are my suggestions:

1. Remove the kingdom raid advert. There is absolutely no reason for it to exist as the kingdom follows the same properties of a regular base in the fact that if you trespass it, advert or not, the king or people inside can KOS you regardless of whether there is a law. There's no reason otherwise for a non member of the kingdom to enter it for it not to be a raid, there is no hotspots or unique/useables that you should be allowed to use. The PD, for instance is by default AOS past second door meaning you are free to use the station or bounty board, without it being considered an invasion of government property. It is however not unique and there are other areas to get health/armor/look at bounties, if the mayor makes the PD KOS you are only really losing out on emergency phones and scratch offs which are not unique features ans still have unique methods of being obtained whether it be via trading or fishing/processors. For the bank, the MOTD clearly states that the bank manager may not make it inaccessible for people other than him or his friends. This makes sense as it's currently the only way to access it. However the manager is justified by KOSing non bank staff or his friends to go past the lobby area as it's his bank and the vault is non interactable by non bank staff and has no purpose other than to be raides by them, no special tools come along with. Basically, long story short kingdom has nothing of that sort and is basically just regular private property.

 

2. Disallow the king to be teleported with cereal, in conjuction with the suggestion above could very well re balance the meta. The reason this would also need to be added in uniscon with the suggestion I made above is that it is only natural for people in an online game to find the easiest strategy or most effective tactic available in order to achieve a goal whether it be a successful raid or just an easy liberation. Removing this option would encourage raids on the kingdom to feel less cheap and actually promote good roleplay instead of taking the easy way out to milk your ever growing chinese gold mine. Not much else needs to be said for this really.

 

3. Make the area that you spawn in kingdom to be random and simply have a large exit portal for exiting once you enter, that cannot work as an entrance so it cannot be abused. The way I would see it work is that the entrance portal in RPland is in the same area as it is HOWEVER the area where you would spawn after entering it would be a completely random/uncalculable set of teleportation locations that can completely render surround base types useless and instead maybe promote a village or warehouse aesthetic that utilizes the spawn area or flat terrain? It is a kingdom afterall it makes sense that people would have homes inside with their own goods. It is a community in the end. The only problem I could see with this is that it could cause you to maybe get stuck in where a certain player maybe has their house or have a surrounding area with shooting floors. 

 

 

Overall just one of these will not solve anything but having all three implementations could very well benefit our server and improve the RP experience/balance out the economy. If you have the time, please leave your response in the comments below as to why you agree or disagree.

[jillianx]

36 minutes ago, johneysrap said:

1. Remove the kingdom raid advert. There is absolutely no reason for it to exist as the kingdom follows the same properties of a regular base in the fact that if you trespass it, advert or not, the king or people inside can KOS you regardless of whether there is a law. There's no reason otherwise for a non member of the kingdom to enter it for it not to be a raid, there is no hotspots or unique/useables that you should be allowed to use. The PD, for instance is by default AOS past second door meaning you are free to use the station or bounty board, without it being considered an invasion of government property. It is however not unique and there are other areas to get health/armor/look at bounties, if the mayor makes the PD KOS you are only really losing out on emergency phones and scratch offs which are not unique features ans still have unique methods of being obtained whether it be via trading or fishing/processors. For the bank, the MOTD clearly states that the bank manager may not make it inaccessible for people other than him or his friends. This makes sense as it's currently the only way to access it. However the manager is justified by KOSing non bank staff or his friends to go past the lobby area as it's his bank and the vault is non interactable by non bank staff and has no purpose other than to be raides by them, no special tools come along with. Basically, long story short kingdom has nothing of that sort and is basically just regular private property. 

For this case I give +1 as the moment someone adverts kingdom raid everyone in the kingdom basically moves towards the base defense and the raid can be over in seconds + the fact that the king can have laws where their party can KOS unwanted people, so having kingdom raid advert gone it would balance the problem 
 

36 minutes ago, johneysrap said:

2. Disallow the king to be teleported with cereal, in conjuction with the suggestion above could very well re balance the meta. The reason this would also need to be added in uniscon with the suggestion I made above is that it is only natural for people in an online game to find the easiest strategy or most effective tactic available in order to achieve a goal whether it be a successful raid or just an easy liberation. Removing this option would encourage raids on the kingdom to feel less cheap and actually promote good roleplay instead of taking the easy way out to milk your ever growing chinese gold mine. Not much else needs to be said for this really.

I would also HUGE +1 this as there is not really an easy/accesible way to counterplay cereal. For new kings or people that are experienced with being king, being teleported and instantly killed may ruin their experiences for the people living in the kingdom and for the king itself. Also that cereal is super easy to obtain by fishing or buying it people can non-stop use the cereal to tp the king and kill them to take their spot. 

 

36 minutes ago, johneysrap said:

3. Make the area that you spawn in kingdom to be random and simply have a large exit portal for exiting once you enter, that cannot work as an entrance so it cannot be abused. The way I would see it work is that the entrance portal in RPland is in the same area as it is HOWEVER the area where you would spawn after entering it would be a completely random/uncalculable set of teleportation locations that can completely render surround base types useless and instead maybe promote a village or warehouse aesthetic that utilizes the spawn area or flat terrain? It is a kingdom afterall it makes sense that people would have homes inside with their own goods. It is a community in the end. The only problem I could see with this is that it could cause you to maybe get stuck in where a certain player maybe has their house or have a surrounding area with shooting floors. 

For this I would give a NEUTRAL as I do think having a random teleport area would give raiders a better advantage of raiding and reduces the risk of being stuck or having the entrance be spammed with leggies and ending the raid, but only if the teleport spawn is around the area where you can't build, not all over the entire kingdom. Having the spawn all over the kingdom gives the possibility of raiders spawning in homes already in the kingdom that'll already give them a huge leverage and most experienced raiders will come with sbcs, jetpacks, etc, so they would already have bypassed the entire kingdom defense, making it useless like you said and will have no point in having the base defense. But if you make multiple spawns around the area where you can't build, I think it'll still give more opportunities for them to have a successful raid and making the chances of them dying lower. What could also happen is that you could make the no-build area bigger so then they would have to make the base defense bigger, adding the new multiple spawns would give them much more space to breathe in. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by jillianx

[Vexxy]

However Defending base raids SOLO is almost impossible with said methods and almost requires the raider to make a mistake in their attack by standing in a spot to be shot, or have something happen to them that causes the raid to be stopped

If you want to base alone you either need to have supreme aim, Luck that the raider doesn't know you see them before you kill them or annoy the raiders enough by shooting their C4 away after they had already blown 4 layers of your defenses away. 

Hense why people want to base in kingdom, It flips the advantage on people in the favor of the defenders, You have multiple people surrounding a single point and the raiders are left vulnerable without a way to defend themselves.

If the base was in somewhere, say Industrial, Raiders have essentially the walls and building around the base to protect them and all they need to do is play it slow as they chuck c4 in until an opening is created. Eat a few speed foods and damage resist and run in with their epic gun and delete the 1 or 2 people defending because if there are more then 2 people defending its highly unlikely that they would've reached inside without something costly.


I agree kingdom has become popular for how easy it is to defend, But in the flip side Its almost impossible to defend a base without overwhelming numbers on the defending side due to how many advantages and items raiders get to raid with. 

 

[Wilhelm Panderino]

i agree, but it appears the community does not.

https://imgur.com/a/1d83AMv

[Vexxy]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm Panderino said:

i agree, but it appears the community does not.

https://imgur.com/a/1d83AMv

The community agree's it should be allowed in the current ruleset is what that means.
 

[Mori]

It was already stated in the last community meeting that the kingdom place is getting a rework. You can listen to the community meeting and the upcoming changes here. 

. For the kingdom Sugar was thinking about having raiders being able to make a raid portal to spawn either randomly in the kingdom or in a wider spot in front of the kingdom. (If I remember correctly) 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Mori
its back pog

[Vexxy]

15 minutes ago, Mori said:

It was already stated in the last community meeting that the kingdom place is getting a rework. You can listen to the community meeting and the upcoming changes here. https://soundcloud.com/user-243415939/community-meeting-october-2-2020. For the kingdom Sugar was thinking about having raiders being able to make a raid portal to spawn either randomly in the kingdom or in a wider spot in front of the kingdom. (If I remember correctly)

Yeah but I feel thats only going to have people either make blockades to trap people in the individual spots and one dupe rebuild and the issue is solved.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Azuria
Link Fixed

[Jewann]

12 hours ago, johneysrap said:

1. Remove the kingdom raid advert

The only way this is a good idea is if entering kingdom always constitutes raiding, we discussed this in the staff meeting.

12 hours ago, johneysrap said:

Disallow the king to be teleported with cereal

This is a better idea than disallowing mayor tps, as mayor had actual counterplay and king doesn't. I do not think changing it for mayor was a good change, but I can support this.

12 hours ago, johneysrap said:

Make the area that you spawn in kingdom to be random and simply have a large exit portal for exiting once you enter

The idea discussed in the community meeting would be an adequate solution. 

 

 

10 hours ago, mcdonalds wifi said:

Basing sucks because raiding sucks and is braindead. C4 is too cheap and disposable. The kingdom works for 1 reason and 1 reason only, because other bases are raided like this

 

>smoke grenade

>run in

>c4

>run out

>smoke grenade

>run in

>c4

>try and kill the basers

You need to build better bases, or base with better players. This is not how any raid with even one competent defender should play out. If this is the level your argument is at, you should seriously get involved in more raids before giving a response.

 

10 hours ago, mcdonalds wifi said:

not something that you can justify throwing 5 of away in one raid

5 c4 is a ~325k investment, if people are using 5 c4 for ents worth less than 325k, they are losing money, and will go broke eventually. I believe c4 is hard enough to obtain, and has enough counterplay to justify its raiding value.

 

10 hours ago, mcdonalds wifi said:

they just make the kingdom shit to base in like everywhere else.

Again, if you think raids are raider sided, you are severely underexperienced in raids on this server.

 

10 hours ago, Azuria said:

However Defending base raids SOLO is almost impossible with said methods and almost requires the raider to make a mistake in their attack by standing in a spot to be shot, or have something happen to them that causes the raid to be stopped

This is simply wrong. The richest players of the server have made their money primarily by solobasing, and we have all successfully defended solo against giant raid groups in the past.

 

10 hours ago, Azuria said:

annoy the raiders enough by shooting their C4 away after they had already blown 4 layers of your defenses away. 

If you build a good enough base, you should be able to shoot away any c4 that is planted on it. Not sure why many people still use outdated dupes that allow guaranteed c4 placements. But this is an issue that I would place on incompetence of builders, rather than imbalance of raiding tools.

 

10 hours ago, Azuria said:

Hense why people want to base in kingdom, It flips the advantage on people in the favor of the defenders, You have multiple people surrounding a single point and the raiders are left vulnerable without a way to defend themselves.

Again, advantage is always on the side of defenders, basing in kingdom just makes that advantage much more heavy, and arguably unfairly heavy.

 

10 hours ago, Azuria said:

in the flip side Its almost impossible to defend a base without overwhelming numbers on the defending side due to how many advantages and items raiders get to raid with. 

I've almost never based with more than 2 friends, and it has been months since I have lost a raid defense. I am not saying it is impossible, but if you believe raids are not defender sided in the current meta, you are delusional. 

 

Just wanted to respond to dispel some mistruths given by some people in this thread. I feel as if many of the people commenting are doing so without all of the necessary information to back up their opinion.

[Emperor Taint Rat Legend X]

 

On 10/4/2020 at 3:12 AM, johneysrap said:

1. Remove the kingdom raid advert. There is absolutely no reason for it to exist as the kingdom follows the same properties of a regular base in the fact that if you trespass it, advert or not, the king or people inside can KOS you regardless of whether there is a law.

I've made this suggestion in the past, others in the community seemed to be on board, +1

[Emperor Taint Rat Legend X]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:12 AM, johneysrap said:

3. Make the area that you spawn in kingdom to be random and simply have a large exit portal for exiting once you enter, that cannot work as an entrance so it cannot be abused. The way I would see it work is that the entrance portal in RPland is in the same area as it is HOWEVER the area where you would spawn after entering it would be a completely random/uncalculable set of teleportation locations that can completely render surround base types useless and instead maybe promote a village or warehouse aesthetic that utilizes the spawn area or flat terrain? It is a kingdom afterall it makes sense that people would have homes inside with their own goods. It is a community in the end. The only problem I could see with this is that it could cause you to maybe get stuck in where a certain player maybe has their house or have a surrounding area with shooting floors. 

There are bases on the map that are used 100 times more often than any other bases and they all have one thing in common, they all have one main entrance with no side or back entrances.
Doing this to kingdom would make the whole idea of kingdom basing just as shitty and mundane as a shitshow base where you can just blowtorch through a side entrance or window.
This idea would put kingdom on par with basing at the gas station, -1