Exploiting Appeal

[Mori]

In-Game Name

Silver

Your Steam ID

STEAM_0:1:128931255

Why were you banned or warned?

Exploiting (Throwing grenades through world props to deal damage) and rdm

Why should you be unwarned/unbanned?

Let's go over the reasons why I am banned I was banned for throwing grenades through world props to damage people

1. This is not a rule written in the motd in fact on top of that many people throw grenades at the pd windows (world props) to dmg the mayor. The last time I did this a forums report was made on me which was DENIED. https://forums.titsrp.com/topic/15186-silver-exploiting/page/2/ here is the post. Of course, this post is old but then again no rules have changed.

2. For a rule not written and my last knowledge of this being allowed why would I be banned for a week? I was in Admin chat while this was going on and Legerbs said it would be most likely be a verbal why would I be punished for not knowing this is not allowed?

3. What about other non-los following things, as stated in the forums post I took this up to Rubik apparently to get this fixed but as we see nothing was fixed. Does this mean you can no longer timebomb through walls? Gas grenade through walls?

4. Got the punishment I was told I was getting but then getting another? Looking at my titsrp profile I got my verbal for killing the guy through the wall but then also why did I get banned?

In the end I had no idea this was exploiting and as seen by the post that was denied the last known staff comment on this was "Explosive weapons like grenades and sticky grenades currently do not obey line of sight on this server and using explosives is not cheating. This gets brought up every so often and I can't recall anyone ever being punished for it because that's how explosives work. If you got banned for that previously, you have every right to be upset." So with no updated evidence why is this ban justified I get, I'm an old player and should know every rule but this isn't written in the motd and I'm using my past experiences from the staff team on this.

RDM? In what way was rdm committed I was throwing my grenades at my hit target as the dot is only updated every few seconds it took 5 grenades and I still didn't even kill them. So before you go on about "WHAT CAN THE PEOPLE DO TO COUNTER DO" I have the person's position through the wall and still couldn't kill him after 4-5 sticky grenades. You would be surprised what a medkit and armor packs could do (the something you do with gas grenades)

Silver (STEAM_0:1:128931255) (Silver) failed a hit on Baandit (Banda akul) customer was The hitman died!

Do not insta deny this I am very interested on why all of a sudden my punishment jumped from a verbal to a week ban with no explanation saying that my sit was "Hello you exploited you will get a week ban"

Who warned/banned you?

The Horse

How long were you warned or banned for?

1 week

Edited March 25, 2023 by Mori

[Drakos]

To provide some clarification, the note was added to provide context to the ban, rather than leaving it as the blanket term of 'exploiting.' If it had been a verbal warn, it would have called as much in the note. This was discussed in staff chat prior to the ban. I'll wait a bit before responding further to let other people get their words in.

[The Horse]

1. in the rules it states "DO listen to staff. Even if something isn't explicitly mentioned in the MOTD, does not mean it's okay. If you have an issue with a staff ruling, take it up on the forums instead of in-game" bascially just because it isnt listen dosent mean its ok. 

2. the pd widows isnt the same as hitting someone thru the floor. that window can be opened and closed. 

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284534267600568320/1089034917876355173/Garrys_Mod_x64_2023-03-24_23-55-37.mp4

here is the video my of pov as it happened for thoes who want to see what happend

Edited March 25, 2023 by The Horse

[Mori]

14 minutes ago, The Horse said:

1. in the rules it states "DO listen to staff.

Yeah that is exactly what I did I listened to what staff told me before

 

14 minutes ago, The Horse said:

2. the pd widows isnt the same as hitting someone thru the floor. that window can be opened and closed. 

 

 I am not refering to that window im talking about the windows next to it also while the window is closed. Those are both world props (the non openable windows)

 

Also in the video I can now see how I never killed baandit instead of doing any healing you sat still and legit took all the grenades I was super confused when I only killed you.

[The Horse]

4 minutes ago, Mori said:

Yeah that is exactly what I did I listened to what staff told me before

old staff don't speak for current staff.  only 2 staff in the old post are currently active. and one that approved of it and while discussing it one of them said they agree with me that this was different and exploiting. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by The Horse

[Mori]

32 minutes ago, The Horse said:

old staff don't speak for current staff. 

I think you are sadly missing the entire point. Yes old staff don't speak for new staff correct but from that post there has been not been another time this has happened. There has been no new rules put in place for stuff like this, and nothing has changed. If a single staff member/single instance of this being punished/any change to attempt to remove this from the game. yes I would understand if you don't want it to be allowed anymore. but the last time this gray area rule has been brought up it was deemed ok and if you guys want to say its no longer ok thats fine but why punish me so heavily when the last known instance of this happening was within server rules. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Mori

[Succ The Zucc]

1 hour ago, The Horse said:

old staff don't speak for current staff.  only 2 staff in the old post are currently active. and one that approved of it and while discussing it one of them said they agree with me that this was different and exploiting. 

Bro as "old staff" ima be straight forward.

 

You know Ziggs are broken. You know Sugar tried preventing them from doing it. You know Sugar made it so Ziggs shouldn't do it. You're not a new player I don't care about what old staff say about it. You know and I know that this was supposed to be a fixed thing as far back as last year. 

 

To sit here and say "I didn't know" I'm gonna call bs. Timebombs obey a LOS. And so does sticky nades too, to a degree unless something happened to those too where it is broken again. 

 

From the March 7th Changelog of 2022

"Made it so Sticky Grenades do reduced damage not in LOS"

 

I personally would say yes. This is exploiting. We talked about this multiple times due to instances of this happening where sticky nades prevented people from lockpicking doors. So we made changes to prevent this. Just. Like. Ziggs. 

 

[Changed Vote]+1 for unban After discussing with Silver and rewatching the video provided. He was in fact using sticky nades. The Changelog I provided shows that sticky nades follow a LOS with dealing reduced damage. This does NOT make this not allowed just a shitty thing to do. 

 

 

(side note) I will agree with you however that we should try to listen to what the older staff said to get an idea on topics from way back when talked about. But this has actively been an ongoing issue since I've been staff in 2019. This is not new. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Succ The Zucc
Changing my vote with explanation

[Drakos]

Heavily? It was a week ban. The same we give for just about every other slightly above mild offence, (ex. any mass ban). The staff team was split on increasing the ban due to your history of bans and a previous exploit ban, which, while not along the same vein as this one, was still there. this wasn't punished heavily because of the offence, it was punished heavily because it was you. Plus, other people have been banned for the same offence of abusing the lack of line of sight for explosives on certain areas of the map, and more than just one. On a sidenote, Sugar has mentioned in a staff discussion that he is working on a way to fix both Line of sight issues and the holding of C4 through walls. don't much care about which way this appeal goes, but I'm definitely not wholly supportive of it.

[Mori]

7 minutes ago, Succ The Zucc said:

You know Ziggs are broken. You know Sugar tried preventing them from doing it. You know Sugar made it so Ziggs shouldn't do it. You're not a new player I don't care about what old staff say about it. You know and I know that this was supposed to be a fixed thing as far back as last year. 

 

To sit here and say "I didn't know" I'm gonna call bs. Timebombs obey a LOS. And so does sticky nades too, to a degree unless something happened to those too where it is broken again. 

 

From the March 7th Changelog of 2022

"Made it so Sticky Grenades do reduced damage not in LOS"

 

I personally would say yes. This is exploiting. We talked about this multiple times due to instances of this happening where sticky nades prevented people from lockpicking doors. So we made changes to prevent this. Just. Like. Ziggs. 

I don't understand why you are bringing ziggs into this but the ziggs issue was the actual grenade going through the wall this is simply doing something that it seems like this March 7th changelog meant to nerf.

 

If Sticky Grenades are not meant to do damage past LOS why didn't sugar just completely remove the damage from it he instead made it deal less damage but these times where apparently you talked about sticky nades and preventing people from lockpicking why are these not documented? Surely something about abusing sticky grenades beyond LOS would be written down in the motd from that conversation? But if this is so truly not intended why is the Change log "Made it so Sticky grenades do REDUCED damage not in los" instead of "Made it so Sticky grenades do NO damage not in los"

[Rubik]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/284534267600568320/1089034917876355173/Garrys_Mod_x64_2023-03-24_23-55-37.mp4

 

Can someone explain what's happening here? Is he in the base below you and throwing a grenade at the ceiling?