I feel it is a false warn.

[Chessmond]

-1  for removal of warn wanted and ironfish said it all.

[The Worst Dad]

Intentionally making laws that hinder the Civil Protection from doing their duties sounds like something a bad mayor would do.

-1

[AflictoGaming]

3 minutes ago, The Worst Dad said:

Intentionally making laws that hinder the Civil Protection from doing their duties sounds like something a bad mayor would do.

-1

So why not tell the mayor to fix said law? All i did was do a demote for a cop for breaking a law. Jump sweps are not police items at all. So thats on them for even having one

Edited February 4, 2024 by AflictoGaming

[AflictoGaming]

Also you and Piklas both were using jump sweps without being after a criminal the entire time as well. I just wanted to catch yall doing it again before doing the demote

 

https://youtu.be/_1tIPEl7iaI

video will be up soon to view seems its taking a little longer to process. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by AflictoGaming

[AflictoGaming]

In this video you can see them both using jump sweps without chasing someone or enforcing another law. Even players voted yes for the demote saying you broke a law. In that clip it shows you and pik using the jumpswel just to jump around. That was it. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by AflictoGaming

[{GN} Isaac]

How are cops allowed to raid with a warrant even though a default law is: Law #2: Do not steal or break into people's homes. (This law cannot be changed no matter what since it is a default law)?

 

When cops warrant a base they are not stealing or breaking into someone's base unlawfully tho?? That's clearly just laws for the city to follow, even cops follow this law? That's why cops can't enter a base without an rp reason  that would be breaking law 2.

 

 

 

 

How can cops kill people that are active threats even though the law says you can only kill in self defense?

 

Police are here to protect and serve the community. So anything that's a threat to the public is also a threat to them. That's self defense 

 

 

How can cops enforce swep laws if mayor is not allowed to make them above the law and cops are also not allowed to break the law?

 

That's on the mayor to be more specific with his law and state officers are allowed to use these certain weapons in this capacity. Like

Aflitico stated jump swept are not default cop tools. 

 

 

 

 

 

• Laws can not target an individual group, class, job, or person. Make your laws general, and make them affect the entire town. You can restrict all areas of the map(besides fountain and in front of PD), but not force people to be there.

I mainly wanna focus on the “ Laws can not target an individual group, class, job, or person. Make your laws general, and make them affect the entire town” 

 

This is basically stating laws are for everyone!!

 

 

• You can not make a law to make someone above the law because it breaks role-play (ex: JohnSteven22 is immune to all laws because he is my friend)

Saying cops can break laws to catch someone breaking laws is breaking this ^.  They are basically immune to all laws.. Easy fix is mayor using rp and stating what sweeps/guns are allowed in certain situations.. Since this is an rp server 

 

 

 

• If someone failed to perform their job functions correctly (Ex: A cop let their friend have a gun without a license) you can /demote them. If they broke a rule against you (Ex: RDM) you could demote them but we highly suggest calling a sit. Contact someone before calling a /demote on them for breaking a rule against you. If you are unsure, ask for staff assistance.

 

 

 

Main issue is we have multiple rules written in motd that are saying whats happening here is not allowed and  all of a sudden cops are allowed to break laws and not be held accountable when doing so?? I remember when us staff were telling players to use demote more instead of calling staff + when jwalking was around cops would get demoted for arresting jwalkers because they jwalked. 

 

 

Cops sections needs a rework and these should be in motd if we are gonna be doing it this way.

 

 

Warn be removed 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2024 by {GN} Isaac

[Crabroll]

This situation could have been avoided if a) ANYONE made a sit or report on the mayor for dogshit laws that may not be directly against the rules but hinder RP for no reason or B) lets roleplay this situation out as this is an RP server and HMM idk, maybe reached out to the mayor to demote his bad cops, or C) As per the MOTD, it is a good thing to reach out to said player before using the /demote feature. 

 

In this situation, it highlights for me a couple things that may need clarification. 

• You can not make a law to make someone above the law because it breaks role-play (ex: JohnSteven22 is immune to all laws because he is my friend)

For me, the intent of this is solely to prevent people from making their friends above the law. Any further implied definition or meaning (while good for RP) is not written. 

 

People lack the understanding of how Cops work. Ironfish highlights the necessity of cops to be able to sometimes be above the law in the sense that there is not a law that makes them immune but rather to perform their basic CP role. 

 

Compared to Irl this is shown through "Everyone must obey the law, including the police, but there are laws that give police special powers to do things that are illegal for other people, and even then police can use these special powers only in some circumstances: while they are investigating an offence or enforcing a law, and only if they have special permission from a superior (except in emergencies), and only if they reasonably believe that “breaking the law” is appropriate in the circumstances."

 

In a sense, cops in gmod also need this special priveledge to work as a role. Due to the variety of laws a mayor could potentially make, it wouldn't make sense to just say cops can be above the law. What if mayor makes bitminers illegal. Do cops suddenly have the ability and privilege to farm bitminers? No.... that wouldn't make sense. But as Wanted and Ironfish mentioned, if a mayor makes sweps illegal or default law against violence, how could cop work as a role?

 

This is a bigger issue that needs to be discussed as to how we can word and add something to the MOTD, cop rules etc. 

 

 

In this specific incident, Aflicto's actions can be seen as not the best course of action and definitely not what I would call stellar roleplay but does it deviate enough from the rules far enough to give a warning? Probably not. 

 

Is Aflicto's actions something I would not want to see from staff members? Yes, but he currently is not staff so 

 

 

+1 for education and warn removal and to use demote as per motd until updated.

[Nipple Farm]

I'm on Isaac and Crabrolls side on this one. +1 for removal

[HungWang]

-1 I feel like this whole situation is just common sense. I feel the warn is valid and all the other staff members bring valid points to reach this conclusion.

 

[AflictoGaming]

1 hour ago, Hung Wang said:

-1 I feel like this whole situation is just common sense. I feel the warn is valid and all the other staff members bring valid points to reach this conclusion.

 

It doesn’t feel like common sense at all imo. Nothing in the rules at all state that cops can be above the law again, though my video shows them breaking said law without trying to force another law, wanted says a cop can break the law to force another law, but the problem there was, he wasn’t enforcing another one. He was just breaking one. When wanted said Cops can break a law to enforce other laws people called him out and said he was wrong for it too. In the server the people voted for the demote on him be they thought he couldn’t break a law to enforce another law as well. So I am not the only one who thinks this at all as it is not common sense. The entire time I’ve been on this server, which has been since the very beginning, nothing has ever stated cops can break the law, because that makes them above it. Now If i need to be i can be more understanding if Wanted wants to say, they can break it to enforce it but in that video, it shows Wanted and Pik both breaking law 5 without enforcing any other law at that the time of them using the jumpsweps. So my demote on them is both valid.   

I would also like to say we have been told to only really use demote for rp situations. I felt like the cop broke a law which he did and i had him demoted from the job. Its the same thing as if i see a cop cuffing people and just walking away from the. We can demote for that as well. In that rp situation you see a corrupt cop and have a demote made on him to get him out of his position. 

Edited February 4, 2024 by AflictoGaming