Lets talk balance

[TitsRP]

For the past few days, some staff members have been mentioning that C4 should either be removed entirely or just be only purchasable from the Black Market Dealer because allowing people to spawn with it on their custom class is pretty stupid. I do agree a lot with this and it was never my intention to allow people to get such a powerful tool if they just dish out some dolla dolla.

 

This is wrong on two levels. One, a server should not be "pay to win". Why play on a server where new users will just get steamrolled? Two, custom classes were never intended to give an user the upper hand. They are meant to be and feel unique. It makes you stand out if you have your own model, name and possibly a workshop weapon. Sure, you can pay a lot of money for a lot of guns but at the end of the day, every gun is a 1 shot to the head. Regardless what gun it is. Plus I always manage and nerf workshop weapons if they feel too insane. (Workshop weapons are supposed to have 0 advantages over m9k weapons).

 

Having a base is supposed to feel secure. Your goods and you are supposed to feel protected. It's rather easy and quick to make and it can protect you from the outside world. Except, you have people that pay some money that take away the secure feeling of staying in the base. In the end, the server becomes a raiding server, not a RP server. There is no reason to RP when you can just raid everyone's base easily and make all the new players leave.

 

There are a few ways to solve this problem and I would like to know what solution you guys would want.

1. Get rid of C4 entirely as if it was never there
   
2. Keep C4 and move it to the black market dealer only, removing it from all custom classes
   
3. Keep C4 and nerf the blast radius to not kill people and to only blow up the prop its placed on
   
4. Keep C4 and move it to the black market dealer and make a modified C4 for custom classes that only blow up the prop its placed on with no explosive damage
   

In theory there are probably a lot more ways to deal with this issue. Personally, I think options 2, 3 and 4 all have potential. I don't think there is a point in removing C4 all together but I will definitely allow you guys to vote on that. I will also be increasing all door health to 5000 which is 3.3 times higher than normal. This means, if you want to break down the door, you will have to work for it.

 

If option 2 is picked and C4 is moved to the black market dealer, that is fine. All custom classes will have $10 worth to swap it out for a weapon or two!

 

If you want to discuss any other balance issues, let me know and I will provide some insight!

[cat 2]

Option 4 seems best fit for this situation, considering the C4 will no longer do actual explosive damage it'll be a lot more safe for people to try and defuse it, or try to remove it last second, even though they might get killed by the person who placed it, either way, but I also recommend lowering the price of C4... you have to be quite ok economy wise, and most new users will be steam rolled either way by  high end players with all of the options above, all though I see option 4 being the best for both donor for custom classes and both non custom classes

[johnny rebel]

a server should not be "pay to win".

but you gotta think economically who would donate or make a custom class if its supposed to not have the slightest advantage a playermodel is cool but what's the point of spending $20+ just to play the same as the average player. Your server is a pay to win any server with custom classes is pay to win idk even know how much money i spent on my class i did this because i was tired of getting melted by anyone with a custom class otherwise if it was equal i wouldn't have spent a dollar on a custom class c4 isn't the problem it's custom classes if you want your server to be equal take out custom classes theres no other way but on the other hand there where you make your money from so in my eyes if you really want the server to be  equal you either

A. take out custom classes as a whole and lose alot of your profits

or B. leave in custom classes new players and bases get rekt and might not play on your server  anymore or like i did they might buy a custom class so they can be equal

 

spawning in with weapons most likely better then alot of in-game ones and armor and maybe even  with a few of your buddies that you added to your class ready to wreck any base that you find made by some new guy who is cooking meth in a little wooden shack

 

In conclusion, a simple thing like c4 is not the problem i suggest you should just increase the door strength or take out custom classes as a whole

[steveg216]

spawning in with weapons most likely better then alot of in-game ones and armor and maybe even  with a few of your buddies that you added to your class ready to wreck any base that you find made by some new guy who is cooking meth in a little wooden shack

 

 

 

You are literally the prime example on why c4 shouldn't be on classes or be on the server. If you join a server with 10 thousand dollars, spend it all on a money printer and spend 2 hours making a base, just to have it explode in less then 5 minutes of removing the building sign, how would you feel? Why should you play on that server anymore? You now have no money, no base, and you know that basing is useless. Look around the server when you get on, who has a base still standing? People who have custom classes, and there will be around 5 people in each base, so the second someone calls raid they are there. When there's a new player, all they have is themselfs and maybe a double barreled.

[johnny rebel]

spawning in with weapons most likely better then alot of in-game ones and armor and maybe even  with a few of your buddies that you added to your class ready to wreck any base that you find made by some new guy who is cooking meth in a little wooden shack

 

 

 

You are literally the prime example on why c4 shouldn't be on classes or be on the server. If you join a server with 10 thousand dollars, spend it all on a money printer and spend 2 hours making a base, just to have it explode in less then 5 minutes of removing the building sign, how would you feel? Why should you play on that server anymore? You now have no money, no base, and you know that basing is useless. Look around the server when you get on, who has a base still standing? People who have custom classes, and there will be around 5 people in each base, so the second someone calls raid they are there. When there's a new player, all they have is themselfs and maybe a double barreled.

 

im not agreeing or disagreeing. i would extremely doubt sugar would ever take out custom classes how would he make money

[Levenaye]

I say number three. People that purchase the weapon from a BM will abuse it. While us people that bought it with real money: We only need 1 door to get out of the way to raid.

[johnny rebel]

I say number three. People that purchase the weapon from a BM will abuse it. While us people that bought it with real money: We only need 1 door to get out of the way to raid.

 

how do u abuse c4? how do we know someone with a custom class won't abuse it? why do you think someone who buys it would abuse it?

[Levenaye]

I say number three. People that purchase the weapon from a BM will abuse it. While us people that bought it with real money: We only need 1 door to get out of the way to raid.

 

how do u abuse c4? how do we know someone with a custom class won't abuse it? why do you think someone  who buys it would abuse it?

 

The RDMers will get a hold of them and just blow shit up with it for no reason other than ruin a base

[Mushroom]

I say number three. People that purchase the weapon from a BM will abuse it. While us people that bought it with real money: We only need 1 door to get out of the way to raid.

 

how do u abuse c4? how do we know someone with a custom class won't abuse it? why do you think someone  who buys it would abuse it?

 

The RDMers will get a hold of them and just blow shit up with it for no reason other than ruin a base

 

That would take a considerable amount of time considering that 1 piece of c4 costs 100K from the black market dealer. Guns are more effective a killing tool anyway, it wouldn't change anything.

[Crt]

I feel like Option#2 is the way to go. Option#3 and #4 are dumb.

 

To balance C4 you would need to work on how we make bases. People make those annoying defenses where it's opaque one side and the other side is see through. People would then enclose you on 3 sides making everything unseeable to the raiders, but it gives wallhacks to the defenders.

 

The reason why C4 became extensively used was to counter that nonsense of dealing with see through props and also being completely blocked off from seeing anything. I've been onto plenty of servers that don't allow one-way material on the fence with 50-64 players. It just means that people need to be more smart about basing. This also means that C4 will lose its purpose/value because it was only used to counter the bases that are normally impossible to raid because of one way props.

 

I strongly recommend you doing this regardless of that weak excuse of "we can't just transition randomly and not allow one-way props", we can, other servers have done it before, and if you're serious about balancing the server, then you need to do this. We don't want people to have the ability to snipe players through one way props with automatic sniper rifles (Dragunov SVU) or the Dragon Lore/Asiimov and kill them with little effort. There's no more point. That's why C4 was basically made to counter these overwhelming defenses. Except that C4 completely destroys your defenses which is why it going to BMD makes sense only if you stop the one-way view prop nonsense.

 

If you can stop the one-way props/two props, one way view (color tool exploit), then everything is fair game. Your server balance is fixed. People will have to use opaque materials on their props and can't use a damn exploit to their advantage while defending. If you think they should have one way props, then you need to hear me scream in Teamspeak because you don't play on the server and you probably haven't raided in like a year.