Warn Appeal - Smelly

[Haze_of_dream]

In-Game Name

Haze_of_dream

Your Steam ID

STEAM_0:1:75838598

Why were you banned or warned?

"FailRP", Multiple reasons were swapped. from "Fining a user another cop apprehended" to "Double fining" (I only fined once, and Smelly arresting him isn't a fine.)

Why should you be unwarned/unbanned?

Smelly said that it was "failrp" to fine a user he was arresting because he got the cuff, I told him to cite a rule and then when he had no foundation for this claim he switched it to double fining, I then again told him to cite a rule. He decided to not even humour this and then jump to a 1 day ban (which for a failrpx1 alone isn't ever the case, it has to be accompanied by something like NITRP or prior history, which I Don't have.), He then swapped to a warn. I found it rather odd that smelly is one of the advocates of 'Education over punishment", Unless it's someone exposing their lack of rule knowledge. I also noticed during this ordeal that Smelly almost seemed to use Intimidation like tactics. The fact that he didn't even explain what was done wrong was the worst part, as their is no point to a sit if a user doesn't know what they did.

And another thing, Their is no difference between fining someone for his bounty and then being arrested compared to arresting him and then fining for his bounty. The bounty wasn't even the arrest reason it was seperate, and his bounty wasn't related to the crime he just committed.

All in all, I'm rather shocked of how Smelly made a non-existent rule claim and had no problem instantly taking his own sit, citing a non existent rule. getting asked a source, then swapping to another non existent rule, then ignoring the user to state he's going straight for a ban (I have a clean record of bans, and this is the only warn I have.) I wonder if he swapped this to a warn because he realized a ban would look worse on an appeal/report.

Who warned/banned you?

Smelly

How long were you warned or banned for?

Warn, Permenantly.

https://youtu.be/4WzR1SNQonY

Edited December 1, 2021 by Haze_of_dream

[Smelly]

Hi!

 

I am all education over punishment, always have been. However, you are known to misconstrue laws/rules to benefit yourself and find ways to loophole these rules while drawing out sits with arguments that take staff away from other situations that need tending to. I have always been a more lenient moderator and offer verbal warnings in situations where a hard warn/ban could be possible but I help people along the way rather than just getting rid of them and moving on.

 

 I cuffed a user for having a weapon out and the current !laws the Mayor had in place said the only punishment allowed was AOS. I wanted them and by the time I had pulled my arrest baton out to swing it at them, you had fined MY cuffed individual for their bounty. I was going to shrug it off and just let them out but your reaction of me trying to inform and educate you to not double fine punish was toxic and you rejected the knowledge, letting me know that I should "cry about it" so rather than brushing it off, I took action towards someone who was unreceptive to education.

 

I was a little annoyed so initially I was going to do a day ban for FailRP but thinking over it I agreed that a warn was more suitable for the offense, so I changed the punishment.

 

Fining another cops cuff and double punishment stem from the same thing and the reason never changed. Those are both the things I was trying to educate you on. I have been warned for this exact same situation in the past.

 

I apologize you took my no-nonsense approach as "intimidation like tactics" but unfortunately, reputation you've put upon yourself has precedes you and I will not be harassed, talked down to and disrespected in a sit for the entertainment of another.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Smelly

[Blob]

So I see you posted a video so I'm waiting on that before I make my decision.  And I would like to say that staff and take there own sits as long as they are non-bias in it

[Haze_of_dream]

28 minutes ago, Smelly said:

Hi!

 

I am all education over punishment, always have been. However, you are known to misconstrue laws/rules to benefit yourself and find ways to loophole these rules while drawing out sits with arguments that take staff away from other situations that need tending to. I have always been a more lenient moderator and offer verbal warnings in situations where a hard warn/ban could be possible but I help people along the way rather than just getting rid of them and moving on.

 

 I cuffed a user for having a weapon out and the current !laws the Mayor had in place said the only punishment allowed was AOS. I wanted them and by the time I had pulled my arrest baton out to swing it at them, you had fined MY cuffed individual for their bounty. I was going to shrug it off and just let them out but your reaction of me trying to inform and educate you to not double fine punish was toxic and you rejected the knowledge, letting me know that I should "cry about it" so rather than brushing it off, I took action towards someone who was unreceptive to education.

 

I was a little annoyed so initially I was going to do a day ban for FailRP but thinking over it I agreed that a warn was more suitable for the offense, so I changed the punishment.

 

Fining another cops cuff and double punishment stem from the same thing and the reason never changed. Those are both the things I was trying to educate you on. I have been warned for this exact same situation in the past.

 

I apologize you took my no-nonsense approach as "intimidation like tactics" but unfortunately, reputation you've put upon yourself has precedes you and I will not be harassed, talked down to and disrespected in a sit for the entertainment of another.

 

Considering more than 90% of your argument and response is concerning my "reputation" i won't bother making this long.

 

> the current !laws the Mayor had in place said the only punishment allowed was AOS

 

If the mayor had this that is a fail law. Mayor cannot restrict fines.

 

> However, you are known to misconstrue laws/rules to benefit yourself and find ways to loophole these rules

 

That's a rather interesting way of justifying yourself.

 

> while drawing out sits with arguments that take staff away from other situations that need tending to.

 

So what? What is your argument here? If a sit takes this long like you say. It's for a good reason, You aren't the first moderator I've argued with. However you are the only one I'm reporting as of now, I don't report Jay or Troy because although i may disagree with their decisions they argue in good faith and try to see from my end. You however didn't even bother and are using the classic propensity evidence trick. Your entire first paragraph was an behavioral justification with an ad hominem for context and reasoning.

 

>  I help people along the way rather than just getting rid of them and moving on.

 

This video shows flatly otherwise.

 

> I was a little annoyed so initially I was going to do a day ban for FailRP but thinking over it I agreed that a warn was more suitable for the offense, so I changed the punishment.

 

Convenient.

 

> I apologize you took my no-nonsense approach as "intimidation like tactics" but unfortunately, reputation you've put upon yourself has precedes you and I will not be harassed, talked down to and disrespected in a sit for the entertainment of another.

 

I also apologize that you took my citation requirements as a suggestion, I read the same rules you do and if you make a claim i expect you to back it up, especially if you decide to provoke it and make a sit out of something so petty. I also found that your last sentence was a rather interesting way of saying "your reputation allows me to alter my judgements in my sits and get more leniency if i get caught issuing wrong or biased punishments", You were also not harassed. You are the one that aggravated the situation and got angry when you failed to cite and prove any of your claims and then got threatened with push back when said user decided they weren't going to take a false punishment quietly.

 

If you say that you like education, but in the video show you never once tried to substantiate this claim as you only stated and never proved, you also never tried to even reason. Instead you pulled the atypical "oh shit, he's refuting better ignore it and issue my punishment!". Expect a user to act the same way you act to them if you do something like this. What do you expect a user to think if you make a unfounded claim, pull them into a sit TAKEN BY YOU, proceed to drop the claim you just made and make ANOTHER unsubstantiated claim and proceed to issue punishment without explaining or showing wrongdoing. If you do this and then consider knockback from the user you bullied harassment/condescension/disrespect, Don't be a moderator. Respect is earned, not deserved, Don't treat your users like this disregarding their perspectives and then expect to be treated like a deity.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Haze_of_dream

[Blob]

Your attitude is atrocious, smelly was just trying to help you understand something and you just kept talking over him not trying to listen to him. He was trying to explain it to you before he pulled you into a sit. This would have been a whole different situation if you would of listen to and move with your day, but you are the that started by saying "cry about it".  You show no respect to him at all. I'm going to just do a NEUTRAL towards -1.

[Smelly]

7 minutes ago, Haze_of_dream said:

 

Considering more than 90% of your argument and response is concerning my "reputation" i won't bother making this long.

 

> the current !laws the Mayor had in place said the only punishment allowed was AOS

 

If the mayor had this that is a fail law. Mayor cannot restrict fines.

 

I was a little annoyed so initially I was going to do a day ban for FailRP but thinking over it I agreed that a warn was more suitable for the offense, so I changed the punishment.

 

Conveniant.

 

I apologize you took my no-nonsense approach as "intimidation like tactics" but unfortunately, reputation you've put upon yourself has precedes you and I will not be harassed, talked down to and disrespected in a sit for the entertainment of another.

 

I also apologize that you took my citation requirements as a suggestion, I read the same rules you do and if you make a claim i expect you to back it up, especially if you decide to provoke it and make a sit out of something so petty. I also found that your last sentence was a rather interesting way of saying "your reputation allows me to alter my judgements in my sits and get more leniency if i get caught issuing wrong or biased punishments", You were also not harassed. You are the one that aggravated the situation and got angry when you failed to cite and prove any of your claims and then got threatened with push back when said user decided they weren't going to take a false punishment quietly.

 

If you say that you like education, but in the video show you never once tried to substantiate this claim as you only stated and never proved, you also never tried to even reason. Instead you pulled the atypical "oh shit, he's refuting better ignore it and issue my punishment!". Expect a user to act the same way you act to them if you do something like this. What do you expect a user to think if you make a unfounded claim, pull them into a sit TAKEN BY YOU, proceed to drop the claim you just made and make ANOTHER unsubstantiated claim and proceed to issue punishment without explaining or showing wrongdoing. If you do this and then consider knockback from the user you bullied harassment, Don't be a moderator. Respect is earned, not deserved, Don't treat your users like this disregarding their perspectives and then expect to be treated like a deity.

Like anywhere in the real world, reputations follow you everywhere. No where did that change my judgement or punishment. I would have given the same punishment to anyone that was in this situation and reacted to the information I was trying to give to you before the sit. None of this was biased in the slightest but trying to educate someone that is as familiar with the rules as you are and unreceptive to any information passed to you as you are, I know where this would have went if I didn't put my foot down and control the sit. The moderator guidelines state that we are to take control of the sits and return people as needed without this long drawn out back and forth.

 

You can twist and contort every thing I say to fit what ever agenda you are looking for but I stand by my punishment and I'd like to think the rest of the staff team would agree with this punishment and have my back for this one because I have a track record that is pretty fair and just. except when i forum warned kilo for something i shouldn't have sorry love u

[Haze_of_dream]

19 minutes ago, Blob said:

Your attitude is atrocious, smelly was just trying to help you understand something and you just kept talking over him not trying to listen to him. He was trying to explain it to you before he pulled you into a sit. This would have been a whole different situation if you would of listen to and move with your day, but you are the that started by saying "cry about it".  You show no respect to him at all. I'm going to just do a NEUTRAL towards -1.

 

Other than the Don't post to assist another player's report if you have nothing to contribute. posted on this subforum. I assumed he was a random cop as I'm used to random people making really stupid claims without knowing what they are talking about, The moment smelly decided to escalate it to a sit was when I decided that was a bad choice if you couldn't tell by my tone and reply when he brought me. And I did listen to him if you watched the video, I replied to everything he was saying. the issue lies in which he decides to aggregate the situation into a sit without an actual basis as to which he is issuing a punishment. Any player would have a variation of this reaction if you made a baseless claim, pulled them into a sit and then refused to answer their request and issue a punishment.

 

  

8 minutes ago, Smelly said:

Like anywhere in the real world, reputations follow you everywhere. No where did that change my judgement or punishment. I would have given the same punishment to anyone that was in this situation and reacted to the information I was trying to give to you before the sit. None of this was biased in the slightest but trying to educate someone that is as familiar with the rules as you are and unreceptive to any information passed to you as you are, I know where this would have went if I didn't put my foot down and control the sit. The moderator guidelines state that we are to take control of the sits and return people as needed without this long drawn out back and forth.

 

You can twist and contort every thing I say to fit what ever agenda you are looking for but I stand by my punishment and I'd like to think the rest of the staff team would agree with this punishment and have my back for this one because I have a track record that is pretty fair and just. except when i forum warned kilo for something i shouldn't have sorry love u

 

How convenient that anything i argue is "twisting and contorting". I directly quoted you for anyone to see and the video evidence backs it up. Judging from the kind of reply this is, You didn't even read past the second sentence of my reply. Because within it i gave a very direct example of what you state I do without denying it, except i correct the assumption in which you make. I don't "misconstrue" or "loophole" rules to my liking, If you believe so ask for my reasoning, I never deny anyone the reasoning why I read or interpret a rule the way i did.. On your end however, I asked for a simple citation and the only response you had was flipping your "rulebreak" and then refusing to cite anything.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Haze_of_dream

[Smelly]

3 minutes ago, Haze_of_dream said:

 

Other than the Don't post to assist another player's report if you have nothing to contribute. posted on this subforum. I assumed he was a random cop as I'm used to making really stupid claims without knowing what they are talking about, The moment smelly decided to escalate it to a sit was when I decided that was a bad choice if you couldn't tell by my tone and reply when he brought me. And I did listen to him if you watched the video, I replied to everything he was saying. the issue lies in which he decides to aggregate the situation into a sit without an actual basis as to which he is issuing a punishment. Any player would have a variation of this reaction if you made a baseless claim, pulled them into a sit and then refused to answer their request and issue a punishment.

This is not a report nor is it posted in the report section. This is a warn appeal and staff members have every right and opportunity to add their input to determine the outcome of the appeal.

 

The right to respond opens when the banning/warning moderator has a chance to respond, which I have.

 

Quote

Staff: If you are not the banning staff member, try not to decide on their ban appeal for them. Give them a chance to respond & send them the link if necessary. 

 

[Haze_of_dream]

3 minutes ago, Smelly said:

This is not a report nor is it posted in the report section. This is a warn appeal and staff members have every right and opportunity to add their input to determine the outcome of the appeal.

 

The right to respond opens when the banning/warning moderator has a chance to respond, which I have.

 

 

 

Thanks for ignoring everything else I typed in their. Seems it's rather common of you judging from your replies of this thread and within the video. If anything it seems disrespectful I'm putting all this effort into all my retorts and you don't even grace them with your eyes.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Haze_of_dream

[Blue.]

Lets keep the following responses to strictly being about the appeal.