Verbal warnings flaws

[Zek]

Recently I have been in multiple sits regarding mass rdmers/minges and also single RDM/RRDM. I have noticed that most of the time staffs give out more verbal warnings than actual warnings, most of the cases it's RDM,2xRDM or minor infractions and when it's mass rdm/nlr I also saw staff warning them for 2xRDM to "give them a chance". I do understand in some circumstances verbal warnings are given because it was without a doubt an accident but recently they give out a lot more verbal warnings.

 

The reasons they do that can vary from "he was no previous warnings" to "he doesn't have a lot of warnings".

 

The flaw is that verbal warnings can't be seen in the system, therefor if someone had 10 verbal warning (different staffs warning him) and he gets into a sit, the staff will check his warning and assume he never got warned and verbal warn him again.

Staff needs to understand that warning should be given out more often because it takes a lot of warnings to get banned and warnings are meant to "Warn" people.

 

The issue here, is that there are passive minges on the sever that abuses this and they have near 0 warnings.

 

I think verbal warnings should only be given if you know without a doubt that it was a mistake.

 

Example (real) : Someone RDMed me in PD and when I asked him why, he said that he thought I was raiding. Which isn't a good reason at all because first he can check /adverts, secondly he wasn't a CP to have at least some small justification and lastly I was playing the abomination and had no guns out and wasn't causing a threat. 

 

I called a sit and he got a verbal warning, he only gave a small "sorry" and he got away with a verbal.

 

 

If you have any opinion on the matter, I'd like to read them

[Watermelone]

something that you cant see is usually staff ask in the discord about someone when they receive a sit like this.

[Zek]

something that you cant see is usually staff ask in the discord about someone when they receive a sit like this.

 

I appreciate the input, but I highly doubt for each 1x RDM or most of the sits they ask in discord about them. By the way the sit is going I don't see them afk to ask on discord.

[1-800-Suicide]

I think a way to fix this is adding a system below warnings where a verbal warning is replaced by a warning % maybe somewhat like how the forum warnings work so repeated rule breaking over the course of a shorter timedrame like a week can be tracked. I dont know if there are technical limitations with this tho.

[Zek]

I think a way to fix this is adding a system below warnings where a verbal warning is replaced by a warning % maybe somewhat like how the forum warnings work so repeated rule breaking over the course of a shorter timedrame like a week can be tracked. I dont know if there are technical limitations with this tho.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

That's a good idea, I didn't have any suggestions other than forcing warnings when there isn't enough evidence that it was an accident.

 

But where do you draw the line between a verbal and a real warn... I think this was a bit more where I was heading to with my thread.

It would be easier for the developers for us to define a line, but if we can't I think your idea would be good.

[Zek]

I kind of agree with you but at the same time alot of times getting a warn sucks as frankly I would rather get a ban than a warn, because you can get 50 bans and be fine but get 50 warns and be automatically perma-banned, even ignoring that I feel as 'warns' are being used lately to see if someone is actually a "good" player, which I think it is flawed as let's say you're such a good player that you only get like a warn every 6 months and you've been playing for three years, you'd end up with 6 warns that has just accumulated, warns also NEVER go away unless manually removed meaning that there is no way to convince people that you've learned your lesson as if you get put into a sit and they check your warns, they won't pay attention if your rdm sit was from three years ago by a staff member who was demoted for being unfair in sits, all they'll check is that it says 'RDM' and give you ANOTHER warning. (and this can happen because like you mentioned, this doesn't apply to all staff but sometimes they can act braindead about common sense things without checking motd ten times over)

 

I do agree the warn system isn't perfect and neither are the staff using it, but you're arguing in a selfish manner (which is normal) but you got to see it in a objective way.

I think I am the most affected by warns and wouldn't want to get warned my self because I have 24 warns and in those 24 warns multiple of them were fake or not warranted.

 

Example of a BS warn I got in 2017-18 (I have no evidence) : I was once in a 20 minute sit and the opposite side were really pissed off and wanted me to get warned, then the staff TPed me away and told me "Let me give you a warn and end the sit dude, don't worry the warns don't do anything. I know people with 100's of warns and nothing happened to them" So I trusted him and told him alright give me it. Now i'm 1 warn away from another ban.

 

I doubt a really good player would get to 50 warns without sugar noticing them as being mingy or disruptive so I doubt anyone would get perma-banned for this .

 

Thanks for the input tho ;)

[Sea Bear]

 I can see what your saying. A big policy for staff is to educate a person on the rules rather than punish them. This is why many new players receive a verbal warning. Maybe there should be a way to keep track of a verbal.

[Zek]

 I can see what your saying. A big policy for staff is to educate a person on the rules rather than punish them. This is why many new players receive a verbal warning. Maybe there should be a way to keep track of a verbal.

 

Well I could argue that this is exactly what warns are for. You don't ban new players you warn them, but now it's to another level, they give them another kind of warn to avoid a warn. Warns aren't punishments this is what most staff are missing.

[Cunt Yeastwood]

Unfortunately this is an issue the smod+ team has discussed before. As it is right now, we havent found a way to properly integrate a system to put notes on players accounts to indicate they've recieved a verbal warning. As it is right now we have to rely on fellow staff members remembering the details of other players. Though largely repeat offenders that would break the rules frequently enough tend to become frequent fliers of ours and get punished pretty quickly afterwards. Though I'll definitely bring this up with the smod+ team!

[NuBpC]

I actually really agree with you Zek. I caught myself doing the same thing, and recently have been giving more actual warnings - after all, shouldn’t these warnings BE the equivalent to “verbal warnings”? Don’t get me wrong, there’s a time for verbals and I will give them if I feel it necessary.

 

That being said, I think that we should have something as simple as a note system we can write for each player. Write a verbal warning in there, when they do something against the rules again the staff member reads the note to see past infractions that were not documented in the !warn menu.

 

That’s my input, I think that a system like that would be perfect