Zek

I misunderstood the issue mb. I can give you 1mil if you really care that much

It's intentional

It has the #1 UID so to respond to the question it's technically https://forums.titsrp.com/profile/2-tits/

https://forums.titsrp.com/profile/1-noreply/

Thank you for the quick replies @supermarioben2 & @Slick. What I was trying to extract from these answers was if you both knew the trill of playing a game you like and being able to get monetary gains. In reality it's an illusion, you don't gain that much money. Some of the biggest players back then were making 20$ per week but this was enough to motivate so many people to play on the server and keep playing. It is frustrating that people who don't know any of this trill come on this thread with their best and most used argument being : "I don't like people advertising this on my screen". I am not saying you shouldn't give arguments against it if you're not part of it, but I addressed almost all arguments made against it. No one has directly quoted any of my arguments to make a counter-argument, all I hear is subjective opinions about how advertising is annoying. Ironically, if you go on the old thread Sugar was critiquing people for saying the same subjective opinions but for the opposite side : "I want to be able to sell the money I grinded for" In other words, you guys are selfish as were the people in the old thread. You can't empathize with the people on the other side who are trying to have fun and the biggest reason is because you get annoyed of people advertising. While the opposite side has much to lose, you guys have a small issue on your hand that is how to regulate advertising, sadly you don't even try to help and advocate for the ban to stay in place.

Seems like a minor issue if you compare it to all the positives it can provide... Also why not suggest a regulation on adverting these kind of things rather than complaining when the server chat advertising gets livelier than it is right now? Because by the looks of it, it seems like an irrational discomfort that can be solved by muting said person with the current system we have. Just a side note, but when I was selling there was rarely people spamming the advert. You might maybe recall one or two days where it happened and it was probably because it was being memed. Also did @supermarioben2or @Slick ever participate in selling/buying? Genuine question I need to know before giving another answer.

Do you think it's still true right now? Because boredom doesn't instantly settle in. I would expect people to still base after the ban till they hit the money threshold where you don't have incentive to raid anymore or buy anything else. I have to agree with you that this isn't the only factor and if you know any other major/bigger factor that causes this, you are free to say it.

@supermarioben2I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but... did you even read the main thread? Because I have addressed all of these. "it's the future repercussions that it will have on game balance, the ingame economy, player retention, etc." The reason I made this thread is because we have almost 2 years of data that show the COMPLETE OPPOSITE. Player retention seems to have fallen since the ban, people on this thread are making the remark and I personally see less people play. I got banned in 2018 for 1 year and got unbanned in 2019 and I still recognized most of the players playing, but now in 2021 I rarely see people I know and when I do they are just idling doing nothing. For the economy, again it's in the main thread but I got 2 excel sheets of stats that shows that the economy got WAY WORST after the ban. One reason is because people a hoarding money and when you have 1 bil+ and nothing to spend on, the money wont get deleted from the economy therefor creating inflation. "If a new player plays for a month, buys alot of darkrp cash and has a super op cc, they're less likely to continue playing once they're bored unless they become a staff or something, but that point is kind of irrelevent to the discussion" I will copy paste from the main thread to reply to this : "I would argue the complete opposite, if you want people to play for as long as possible selling/buying is a great way to do it. I myself have been selling back in 2019 some of my cash. I had I think around 70mil back then with no personal CC I wasn't at the "end game" like Sugar tries to make it sound. People who are willing to buy usually will play more than the average player and this should be obvious. Buying cash for new players from other players was a way to bond with the community as a new player. Most of the people I sold cash to asked me question on how to make money, how to do certain things and some of them added me on steam and saw them play for over 1 year+. Not only do new players play more often but the old players play WAY more because it's usually this competitive mind set that makes them play on this server." " I don't think allowing people to sell money will cause a RADICAL CHANGE IN THE META like there will still be like only 3 bases but those 3 bases will still have like 10 full printer racks," You make this statement without evidence. All evidence shows that being in a competitive meta makes for more raiding and not hoarding like it's been happening for the past year. @supermarioben2What are your intentions? I don't understand what you are trying to argue or protect. Clearly if we are talking about player retention, competitive players stay longer than RPers like yourself. This thread in itself shows it by it's majority support.

@supermarioben2 as much as I like you, you keep bringing the same arguments even after people replied to them. Example : You keep saying "so unless you want titsrp to turn into FPS runescape than I don't think we should encourage it." or something similar to this. I addressed it 2 times, but it will NOT "turn" the whole playstyle to competitive, it will CREATE new playstyle. It will not destroy YOUR playstyle, or if it did you should of brought arguments to prove this point. But if it isn't affecting you (except the advert which I don't think is a big deal) Please refrain from using this argument and progress the discussion.

This can be fixed by adding a (semi)-automated middleman service on the website or in the game with a fee to use the service (This is the main talk happening with the Devs right now behind the scene). This might not prevent people who trust each other and wont use the service, but I think it's a good way for the server to make revenue from. Also new users who don't have your trust are usually the majority of the customers you get (in my experience).

@supermarioben2Thanks for the reply but I think you're still seeing the issue with pink glasses. *Having the risk of losing actual money that can be gained when raiding/base defending creates a more hostile environment This is true for all competitive games rust/csgo/league etc... It will indeed create a hostile environment and this was the case for the majority of TitsRP's life. You might not like it, but it is not a reason to enforce your playstyle onto others. There is going to be more people who get mad and there will be more sits but this has been the norm for years and I think it was a way more fun place to be around than today. If the staff team could handle them back then, they can now. If they don't, they can resign. If you real goal is to decrease sits and make a less hostile environment, why not ban any RP that involves something that could piss someone else off? This is just a radical position with no realistic objective. The issue here is that the competitive scene was big and motivated a lot of people to come and play this server. *It increases the possibilities for players to get scammed out of potentially large sums of REAL money If a middleman service is implemented it would avoid this (I would always use a staff as a middleman). You try to portrait it as if BIG amounts of money are traded, but in reality it's almost always under 100$ which is a good price to pay for a life lesson if you ask me. *Having players spam/post about buying DarkRP money in-game annoys me and I assume it might turn off some newer players I addressed this in my thread but I think how you view this is subjective and I already said why it could also be viewed in a positive light. *Having money on the line could potentially encourage players to seek out advantageous bugs or exploits to make a quick buck, If people were seeking exploits they already most likely tried and failed and the money you make from selling is again not that much. If they try to sell 1 billion it would be easy to track it anyways. As for @1-800-Suicide what is the difference between not being allowed to advertise in-game and the state we are in right now? Because as of right now, people are selling without getting caught in discord servers. How would removing the ban and banning ingame advertising be different ? Being able to advertise on the Official discord? I doubt there is any traction from new users who would usually be the majority of the customers.

This might come as a surprise because advertising buying/selling DarkRP cash for IRL cash has been banned for quite a while. When I first saw Sugar going against it in 2020 in some threads I never thought he would actually ban it. From my perspective it was beneficial for both parties of the trade and had no negative repercussions. These are the 2 main threads where you can view Sugar's arguments and other users either against it or for it. 1 : 2 : I will try to make out Sugar's arguments in sections for it to be easier to understand. 1- "I want people to play on the server for as long as possible." Sugar said : "When you give player's the option to basically reach end game right away by having 30+ mil, their time played will be severely decreased. Look at player's who have actually purchased money from people (I know who they are) and a good amount of them have basically quit at this point or have turned around and started selling the money they purchased already. Removing the sale of in game money has no negative consequence other losing players who play on the server that have the one goal of cashing out. EDIT: The other bullet point of it taking revenue away from the server is also big. You guys want more content but we simply don't have enough funds to hire more developers. It's just me producing new content and I work a full time job + have my own things I am interested in outside of TitsRP." This "option" is already given by the server itself, you can buy 30+mil worth of suga dolla so the first part of this argument is already void. He made an edit to specify that it removes revenue which is a fair point and I will be talking about it more in detail later. I would argue the complete opposite, if you want people to play for as long as possible selling/buying is a great way to do it. I myself have been selling back in 2019 some of my cash. I had I think around 70mil back then with no personal CC I wasn't at the "end game" like Sugar tries to make it sound. People who are willing to buy usually will play more than the average player and this should be obvious. Buying cash for new players from other players was a way to bond with the community as a new player. Most of the people I sold cash to asked me question on how to make money, how to do certain things and some of them added me on steam and saw them play for over 1 year+. Not only do new players play more often but the old players play WAY more because it's usually this competitive mind set that makes them play on this server. I want to address the "End game" sugar makes reference to. DarkRP has many ways to play itself and usually the Owner chooses how it goes. As for TitsRP you can choose the path that suits you, goofing around and roleplaying or be competitive. Sadly the competitive scene has fallen because of this ban. There is no powerful incentive to be competitive and base anymore. I know people who never base and just roleplay and that's fine but you deleted a part of the community which also had their fun and their own way which was being competitive in basing/rading. 2- "It stops people from basing for 20 hours a day inflating the economy and selling their "hard earned cash" for IRL money (hence why people have broken the 300 mil limit which hasn't been broken for 5+ years) but has been broken within 2 months because some people have been basing for 20+ hours a day" Sugar tries to pin the economy's inflation onto people who sell/buy darkrp cash for IRL money. Ironically enough 1 year after the ban we have demolished this 300mil record. I got the statistics of 2018 and 2021 and the difference is HUGE. The top 3 riches people right now have 1 billion+ and 26 players have 100mil+ compared to 2018 where only 8 people had 100mil+. Weirdly enough this was when proccesors were OP but the economy was still way less inflated than today. I would argue that selling/buying DarkRP cash made rich people spread their wealth to new player and other players who would spend their money on CC or other things that would at least remove some cash from the economy. To be fair there are many factors that could cause this inflation and we don't have good stats to prove either of our points but I still think that selling/buying would help dissipate the money and not hoard it. 3- "At the end of the day, it's more a "it just doesn't look good" for us. This is a RP server, not a "Selling 50mil $1 a mil. PM me for my paypal. Buy now and get 500 pickup boxes" kinda server. I don't like having people shove IRL cash kinda stuff down people's throat. Why do you think I never advertise the shop? If people WANT to pay for things, they will go out of their way to look for it." This is a subjective matter, Sugar projects himself as the new player to try to solve this issue. While this might be true for some players, I would have to remind you what Sugar really wants "I want people to play on the server for as long as possible." I will make a metaphor so people understand what I mean. Sugar is the type of person to use an open-source software instead of a popular adware software, he looks for the more ethical way to do stuff. Sadly that is not how MOST people work, they'd rather use an adware software because the adware spent money on their GUI rather than a shitty GUI of an open-source software that works better. In the same way people might check how ethical TitsRP is and leave because they dislike that people sell money. But if I am projecting myself onto a new player, I would see opportunities instead because it would mean that the currency has value and if the currency has value that should mean there is value in the servers itself and it's activities etc... Majority of people are not like Sugar and they don't give as much brain power thinking about how ethical it is to sell/buy. 4- "It takes revenue away from the server" This is the most legitimate point he made. If selling/buying did affect significantly the revenue he gets to invest in the server, I would have to agree on the ban because not only this is ethical of him but also better for the server. I tried asking him for revenue stats but they were brief and unclear for the purpose I was seeking and because of the supporter rank and other factors that were added after the ban it would be hard to really know, if you do have any more relevant stats Sugar you can post them bellow. There might be a way to implement a new system to sell/buy where the server also profits from but I have no suggestion yet for it. These are the main arguments that Sugar makes. I will be addressing other arguments from other users. From @supermarioben2 : "allowing/supporting the sale of ingame items/money encourages players to seek profits instead of playing the game for enjoyment. If there is money to be made people will be willing to sit and grind for 20+ hours which causes numerous problems, especially with inflation and imbalance" I strongly disagree with this, I know supermarioben2 is the type of person I stated above who rarely base and usually RPs but people who "seek profit" find enjoyment in doing so. DarkRP has no correct way to be played. Some people like to RP for the fun of it some like to RP competitively and make money in the process. You can't force your playstyle onto others like that. "just thought about this, but allowing darkrp to be sold for irl cash can also make raiders be directly stealing someones money making setup..." That's exactly what made basing so entertaining and competitive, that is why in my opinion there was so many people basing/raiding. This is the trill that is lacking right now on the server, losing your entities doesn't mean shit right now. Most of your other points are critiquing how much money people are making while basing, inflation, imbalance etc... But if you refer to the stats of 2018 to 2021 you can see that this ban has arguably done the opposite and inflated it more. Props to @Jewannfor making good arguments in the post. I had similar arguments back then but almost everything said back then was speculation with no data. So I refrained from posting. In conclusion I hope we can try to sort this out and find a common ground to implement something that benefits everyone. I enjoyed selling and it was a hobby of mine. I strongly think the gains outweighs the losses. PS : I have some behind the scene info that the Devs are thinking/working of a system to implement to remove this ban. Hopefully it's true Looking forward for your opinions

I'm glad to see that more people are getting farther into the puzzle. No one has solved it yet! You still have a chance to win!

Made it a bit easier for the first steps.

The Puzzle has resumed! Read the updates on the main thread.