Gun Balance

[KDawg]

I'd rather see most of the weapons removed and only have a select few. The variety in weapons is nice, but they are all practically just reskins of another weapon / just plain suck. When trying to buy a gun right now it's very confusing to know which one is better then the other, etc.

 

This is what I wanted to do but and the idea was pitched but the argument against it was "I like seeing different guns, idc if they are the same". The benefits of having only a select amount of guns would make balancing a lot easier & lower the general content in the server for people to download but it would also break everything too and would cause a lot of refactoring.

 

It honestly shouldn't be too hard to balance everything. Maybe we should display stats when buying weapons? From GD or wherever else.

 

I don't think my points listed above go with what you're saying here... but yes the tickrate is a factor on firerate, a big factor to what guns are good or not. Don't disagree nor agree. Sugar just needs to take into account he made these updates without adjusting numbers, and any gun that was made to not have much of a recoil suddenly gets one, it turns bad.

 

Most of the guns are more or less the same after the tickrate change. When the tickrate was lowered it hurt how different firerates can be from each other. It shouldn't be that way but because the source engine is wonky and anything below a 22 tick isn't considered supported, its what you have to deal with. An option is to higher the tickrate back to its original state but that may hinder performance.

 

A .08 firerate vs a .1 firerate doesn't have any change at all because of the tickrate. The gap is higher for what is considered different. Its hard to explain but just keep in mind that firerate doesn't really matter unless is a super low number or a super high number.

 

Every single gun was adjusted for when ADS changes happened. It was an ongoing process for 3 weeks for when changes were being rolled out. When you say it can't be that hard to balance guns you're really overestimating how easy you think it is. Why do you think games constantly get balance patches, after they have been out for like 4+ years. Going in an changing values is fine except now you have to say "How many bullets does it take to kill him, how fast is he dying, how is this gun compared to the other guns in its set, how do you price this gun now, is it different from the rest of the guns to feel unique, does the recoil reflect its damage, ammo, firerate, ect". It takes time and when you're comparing 20+ weapons in each set to each other and then comparing those gun sets to other gun sets it can get really convoluted really fast.

 

There are over 100+ non CC weapons that are considered guns and are in that whole pool of weapons. To eyeball and "balance" weapons doesn't work as well as you expect.

 

Making it so there are higher tiered guns is fine but then you're limiting the pool of people that can obtain it. The other option is to make it cheaper so everyone can buy it but then you're making other guns obsolete if you can buy a powerhouse for cheap. The other option is to make it so guns just do too much damage so they're all OP but then people will complain they die too fast which is what happened to have the damage lowered (all guns do 75% of their damage). You can't win here with a pool of weapons so large. Making them all strikingly similar is one of the only ways to go with a few unique shavings in there.

The WZ-35 is the only gun right now I think that actually does more damage than any sniper and cannot be re skinned into (anyone that asks just gets a regular awp).

 

The only other differences in guns is their type of firearm. Pistols have lower recoil and higher accuracy, shotguns have higher recoil and lower accuracy at long range, snipers are snipers, smgs do more damage at close range but suffer slightly from accuracy at farther range, rifles are usually slower but have higher long range accuracy.

 

I mean sure there are probably shitty weapons in the game but that's how it should be. You HAVE to have shit weapons in order to have GOOD weapons. You cannot have one without the other. I can do a balance update and just make it so the shit guns are just a copy of the normal gun in the set but I don't know what those weapons are so please let me know so I can make adjustments to guns that are considered dog shit.

 

In the meantime I can look into highering the tickrate as I personally feel that guns feel too slow now.

[Gent]

I'd rather see most of the weapons removed and only have a select few. The variety in weapons is nice, but they are all practically just reskins of another weapon / just plain suck. When trying to buy a gun right now it's very confusing to know which one is better then the other, etc.

 

This is what I wanted to do but and the idea was pitched but the argument against it was "I like seeing different guns, idc if they are the same". The benefits of having only a select amount of guns would make balancing a lot easier & lower the general content in the server for people to download but it would also break everything too and would cause a lot of refactoring.

 

It honestly shouldn't be too hard to balance everything. Maybe we should display stats when buying weapons? From GD or wherever else.

 

I don't think my points listed above go with what you're saying here... but yes the tickrate is a factor on firerate, a big factor to what guns are good or not. Don't disagree nor agree. Sugar just needs to take into account he made these updates without adjusting numbers, and any gun that was made to not have much of a recoil suddenly gets one, it turns bad.

 

Most of the guns are more or less the same after the tickrate change. When the tickrate was lowered it hurt how different firerates can be from each other. It shouldn't be that way but because the source engine is wonky and anything below a 22 tick isn't considered supported, its what you have to deal with. An option is to higher the tickrate back to its original state but that may hinder performance.

 

A .08 firerate vs a .1 firerate doesn't have any change at all because of the tickrate. The gap is higher for what is considered different. Its hard to explain but just keep in mind that firerate doesn't really matter unless is a super low number or a super high number.

 

Every single gun was adjusted for when ADS changes happened. It was an ongoing process for 3 weeks for when changes were being rolled out. When you say it can't be that hard to balance guns you're really overestimating how easy you think it is. Why do you think games constantly get balance patches, after they have been out for like 4+ years. Going in an changing values is fine except now you have to say "How many bullets does it take to kill him, how fast is he dying, how is this gun compared to the other guns in its set, how do you price this gun now, is it different from the rest of the guns to feel unique, does the recoil reflect its damage, ammo, firerate, ect". It takes time and when you're comparing 20+ weapons in each set to each other and then comparing those gun sets to other gun sets it can get really convoluted really fast.

 

There are over 100+ non CC weapons that are considered guns and are in that whole pool of weapons. To eyeball and "balance" weapons doesn't work as well as you expect.

 

Making it so there are higher tiered guns is fine but then you're limiting the pool of people that can obtain it. The other option is to make it cheaper so everyone can buy it but then you're making other guns obsolete if you can buy a powerhouse for cheap. The other option is to make it so guns just do too much damage so they're all OP but then people will complain they die too fast which is what happened to have the damage lowered (all guns do 75% of their damage). You can't win here with a pool of weapons so large. Making them all strikingly similar is one of the only ways to go with a few unique shavings in there.

The WZ-35 is the only gun right now I think that actually does more damage than any sniper and cannot be re skinned into (anyone that asks just gets a regular awp).

 

The only other differences in guns is their type of firearm. Pistols have lower recoil and higher accuracy, shotguns have higher recoil and lower accuracy at long range, snipers are snipers, smgs do more damage at close range but suffer slightly from accuracy at farther range, rifles are usually slower but have higher long range accuracy.

 

I mean sure there are probably shitty weapons in the game but that's how it should be. You HAVE to have shit weapons in order to have GOOD weapons. You cannot have one without the other. I can do a balance update and just make it so the shit guns are just a copy of the normal gun in the set but I don't know what those weapons are so please let me know so I can make adjustments to guns that are considered dog shit.

 

In the meantime I can look into highering the tickrate as I personally feel that guns feel too slow now.

Yeah I guess, sorry for assuming! I was under the impression almost or half of the guns are just the same gun with a different skin, and if you change the parent base gun it'd change all of them. I can see how it'd be alot of extra work if you had to do 1 by 1! 

I will go ahead and get a list for you in the next couple days after getting the feel for most of them and I'll send them to you

[123 (3)]

Why not buff guns and add perks and different sweps to counter them and non cc jobs that are more vital at combat then cc.

[Gent]

The tickrate has changed and its very obvious a lot of the bad guns are now decent or one of the now top tier weapons. Thank you Sugar!

 

Majority of the weapons are again usable.

[Jawson]

Some guns are op but honestly I like this. I like the faster deaths and more variety. There is several good guns now, dope.

[123 (3)]

Some guns are op but honestly I like this. I like the faster deaths and more variety. There is several good guns now, dope.

 

Shh better delete that before you know who sees that.

[Mr. Peanut Butter]

I think the weapons are great how they are right now. Back in the day, there was always that one gun that everyone used because it was more powerful than the rest. Several trial and errors later, most of the default guns are balanced now. I feel like people are complaining about OP guns as if they can't also get them. Did we forget about Legendaries? Anyone can pick up a poopgun (weapon me up) and you might be surprised how many get left around the map unnoticed by whoever pooped it out. Weapon Modifiers can also produce these types of guns AND they will be droppable which means you can keep them. And if you are still complaining about CC guns you should really play the RDM arena for more than 5 minutes, you will see that most of them are actually just trash vanity items that are just reskins of default guns. This is a multiplayer game, there should be different types of guns at different levels that anyone can get, and there are now, where it wasn't always like that. would you prefer it be like halo and have one of each gun type or what? that would make combat more about skill than stats, sure, but it would get dull fast, as this is not meant to be a realistic simulation of combat or something. Guns are fine right now, and if you do have skill you can still outgun those people that are using a bunch of crutches most of the time. I use standard guns 95% of the time and I still get one of the highest K/D almost every time I play, or at least its always good. Leave shit alone stop whining lulz

[123 (3)]

I think the weapons are great how they are right now. Back in the day, there was always that one gun that everyone used because it was more powerful than the rest. Several trial and errors later, most of the default guns are balanced now. I feel like people are complaining about OP guns as if they can't also get them. Did we forget about Legendaries? Anyone can pick up a poopgun (weapon me up) and you might be surprised how many get left around the map unnoticed by whoever pooped it out. Weapon Modifiers can also produce these types of guns AND they will be droppable which means you can keep them. And if you are still complaining about CC guns you should really play the RDM arena for more than 5 minutes, you will see that most of them are actually just trash vanity items that are just reskins of default guns. This is a multiplayer game, there should be different types of guns at different levels that anyone can get, and there are now, where it wasn't always like that. would you prefer it be like halo and have one of each gun type or what? that would make combat more about skill than stats, sure, but it would get dull fast, as this is not meant to be a realistic simulation of combat or something. Guns are fine right now, and if you do have skill you can still outgun people using a bunch of crutches most of the time. I use standard guns 95% of the time and I still get one of the highest K/D almost every time I play, or at least its always good. Leave shit alone stop whining lulz

 

Correct we should buff every gun so there is more of that one gun.

[Walter the Assaulter]

Some guns are op but honestly I like this. I like the faster deaths and more variety. There is several good guns now, dope.

 

Shh better delete that before you know who sees that.

 

:pepehmm:

[yeeto]

Weapon List

 

There's the weapon list with all the guns available from the supplier.

 

I still think the guns should be balanced, most of them are very similar and the tick rate update helps with the semi rifles now. I believe the weapons should be balanced based on the type of weapon it is (duh).

 

The problem is that the only real thing that separates most of the guns is recoil / ammo. Most of the guns have stats within the same ballpark. If you want to get technical, you can always implement damage fall off so that you can't snipe across the map with an smg, etc. Alternatively, there should be something that defines most weapon types from other ones.

 

Obviously, snipers are good. Shotguns are relatively good if some, most of them are crappy. Pistols are ok, there's really only one good pistol. The problem lies within the SMG's / Rifles - most of them are similiar, if not the same. SMG's should have a faster reload time and (mostly) a faster fire rate and lower damage.

 

Rifles should stay around 3 seconds for a reload, fire rates above .08+ and do slightly more damage with better ADS.