Ban Appeal: Miami Bread

[Miami Bread]

Your Steam Name: Miami Bread

Your ingame name: Miami Bread

Your Steam Profile/SteamID: 76561198349412302

Why were you banned?: Violent Theft

Why should you be unbanned?: Because I didn't commit a violent theft, I countered an assault.

 

Who banned you? Squanch

Evidence: I do not have video evidence or screenshots, and I cannot access the chatlogs, but I can give a detailed description of the events that unfolded.

I was just walking downtown as a hobo, heading over to the forest to get some wood. I see a spirit caller attack a man in the street and try to take his spirit. I say "stop you've violated the law" in voice chat and I run over and shoot the spirit caller.

The spirit caller just happened to be a moderator (which leads me to believe that the mod banned me mostly because they were mad that they lost a dark spirit jar), and they teleport me into a sit. They tell me I'll be getting a day ban for violent theft without letting me say my side of the story. I explain that it wasn't a theft as, 1. I was countering a recent assault and 2. The spirit jar I picked up was not in anyone's possession therefore was not stolen. Squanch then tries to convince me that "counters don't exist in this server". After I prove that they are wrong by showing them the rule 'DO NOT counter actions before getting involved. For example,asking a kidnapper to release your friend otherwise you might counter the action'  Squanch then says "Stop fighting it.", and while I was searching for another rule to refute their claims with, I was banned without warning for "violent theft | appeal if you want". 

[It's cold in here(._.)]

Well then, I was in the same situation and got a warn, except I did actually steal, my guess is you got a ban for the attitude shown, but considering you were defending yourself, I think they shouldn't have banned you

[samma]

You imply you have no relation to the man he was attacking, yet you countered the action as a hobo.

If you are a cop job, you can do something, but you were in no way in relation to the situation and therefore had no means to counter it.

He's not your party member, he's not your gang member, he's not even your friend, he's some random guy you saw and so was the spirit caller you killed.

Also, you DIDN'T get involved. Saying in your mic "stop you've violated the law" and then killing him isn't getting involved in any way, he wouldn't know what you mean and you aren't saying anything concrete anyways so the rule you literally quoted, you broke.

 

This would technically be violent theft; you took the dark spirit jar, which was in his possession until you killed him.

Just because you didn't see him physically pick it up doesn't mean it's not his, that's like saying it's not violent theft if you kill a treasure hunter to steal his treasure chest he just found and spawned but hadn't opened yet. His job is to spawn the spirit jars... he owns them until someone else steals them. You killed him and then stole it, so it did end up being violent theft, even if your intention wasn't to steal it originally.

 

So, while counters DO exist, your counter was entirely false and ended up being RDM and violent theft. If you would like to elaborate on why you felt you were allowed to counter the argument then I'd love to hear it.

[Miami Bread]

Well then, I was in the same situation and got a warn, except I did actually steal, my guess is you got a ban for the attitude shown, but considering you were defending yourself, I think they shouldn't have banned you

 

I think it has to do with the fact that the person who banned me was the person I killed. I had never even done a violent theft or anything like it prior as well.

[Diegs]

This whole explanation is a lie, for one you don’t talk in mic. Two you didn’t warn me to stop you just shot me. Three I grabbed the spirit jar and you shot and killed me. I copied the log saying that you took it. Four it was a 20 min log sit of you saying that you can defend a random person even if you’re not in their party/gang. You said you were involved in the attack by being quote on quote “nereby”

[Miami Bread]

You imply you have no relation to the man he was attacking, yet you countered the action as a hobo.

If you are a cop job, you can do something, but you were in no way in relation to the situation and therefore had no means to counter it.

He's not your party member, he's not your gang member, he's not even your friend, he's some random guy you saw and so was the spirit caller you killed.

Also, you DIDN'T get involved. Saying in your mic "stop you've violated the law" and then killing him isn't getting involved in any way, he wouldn't know what you mean and you aren't saying anything concrete anyways so the rule you literally quoted, you broke.

 

This would technically be violent theft; you took the dark spirit jar, which was in his possession until you killed him.

Just because you didn't see him physically pick it up doesn't mean it's not his, that's like saying it's not violent theft if you kill a treasure hunter to steal his treasure chest he just found and spawned but hadn't opened yet. His job is to spawn the spirit jars... he owns them until someone else steals them. You killed him and then stole it, so it did end up being violent theft, even if your intention wasn't to steal it originally.

 

So, while counters DO exist, your counter was entirely false and ended up being RDM and violent theft. If you would like to elaborate on why you felt you were allowed to counter the argument then I'd love to hear it.

 

Nowhere does it say I am not allowed to counter actions to people besides my party members, it just says that when defending a party member I have to let it be known that that is what I was doing. And the spirit caller's job description says that he can be killed for stealing spirits, much like how a kidnapper kidnapping someone is KOS to anyone, whether they are involved or not. Adding onto that, the spirit caller did not own the spirit, he had just stole it from the victim. The victim owned the spirit, meaning that I stole from the person I was protecting, and not the spirit caller himself.

[It's cold in here(._.)]

Yknow, if you didn't take that one spirit jar, it'd have been just a warn, and considering it was a 20 minute sit, I'm sure you had numerous opportunities to explain your story, you did end up taking the jar, and you should've tried a warn in chat, or going a cp, and not taking their precious dark spirit jar.

[samma]

You imply you have no relation to the man he was attacking, yet you countered the action as a hobo.

If you are a cop job, you can do something, but you were in no way in relation to the situation and therefore had no means to counter it.

He's not your party member, he's not your gang member, he's not even your friend, he's some random guy you saw and so was the spirit caller you killed.

Also, you DIDN'T get involved. Saying in your mic "stop you've violated the law" and then killing him isn't getting involved in any way, he wouldn't know what you mean and you aren't saying anything concrete anyways so the rule you literally quoted, you broke.

 

This would technically be violent theft; you took the dark spirit jar, which was in his possession until you killed him.

Just because you didn't see him physically pick it up doesn't mean it's not his, that's like saying it's not violent theft if you kill a treasure hunter to steal his treasure chest he just found and spawned but hadn't opened yet. His job is to spawn the spirit jars... he owns them until someone else steals them. You killed him and then stole it, so it did end up being violent theft, even if your intention wasn't to steal it originally.

 

So, while counters DO exist, your counter was entirely false and ended up being RDM and violent theft. If you would like to elaborate on why you felt you were allowed to counter the argument then I'd love to hear it.

 

Nowhere does it say I am not allowed to counter actions to people besides my party members, it just says that when defending a party member I have to let it be known that that is what I was doing. And the spirit caller's job description says that he can be killed for stealing spirits, much like how a kidnapper kidnapping someone is KOS to anyone, whether they are involved or not. Adding onto that, the spirit caller did not own the spirit, he had just stole it from the victim. The victim owned the spirit, meaning that I stole from the person I was protecting, and not the spirit caller himself.

 

 

Nowhere does it say you are not allowed to DDoS the server, but are you allowed to DDoS the server? It doesn't say you can counter random actions that you aren't involved with anywhere in the MOTD because you can't counter random actions that you aren't involved with. 

edit: Counter advert also doesn't exist which is a hint, you've also NEVER been able to do this so I don't know where you're getting it from, which is why I bring that up

 

Also, you DIDN'T let him know that that was what you were doing. Why would you have to let someone know if you were defending your party member but not if you were defending some random dude you aren't involved with? (Hint: It's because you can't defend that random dude)

 

The spirit caller can be killed by the person he is trying to get spirits from, that is there to let everyone know that just because he is doing his job does not mean he can not be killed in self defense.

[Miami Bread]

Yknow, if you didn't take that one spirit jar, it'd have been just a warn, and considering it was a 20 minute sit, I'm sure you had numerous opportunities to explain your story, you did end up taking the jar, and you should've tried a warn in chat, or going a cp, and not taking their precious dark spirit jar.

 

I didn't even take the dark spirit jar, I took the blue one and let the other guy take the dark spirit jar. The whole 20 minute sit was trying to explain my story and being interrupted by "Counters don't exist on this server" and "Just stop fighting already", along with trying to tell squanch that counters did exist. And I was banned while typing a message adding onto my side of the story. Literally mid-sentence.

[Jeffy]

You imply you have no relation to the man he was attacking, yet you countered the action as a hobo.

If you are a cop job, you can do something, but you were in no way in relation to the situation and therefore had no means to counter it.

He's not your party member, he's not your gang member, he's not even your friend, he's some random guy you saw and so was the spirit caller you killed.

Also, you DIDN'T get involved. Saying in your mic "stop you've violated the law" and then killing him isn't getting involved in any way, he wouldn't know what you mean and you aren't saying anything concrete anyways so the rule you literally quoted, you broke.

 

This would technically be violent theft; you took the dark spirit jar, which was in his possession until you killed him.

Just because you didn't see him physically pick it up doesn't mean it's not his, that's like saying it's not violent theft if you kill a treasure hunter to steal his treasure chest he just found and spawned but hadn't opened yet. His job is to spawn the spirit jars... he owns them until someone else steals them. You killed him and then stole it, so it did end up being violent theft, even if your intention wasn't to steal it originally.

 

So, while counters DO exist, your counter was entirely false and ended up being RDM and violent theft. If you would like to elaborate on why you felt you were allowed to counter the argument then I'd love to hear it.

 

 

As Sammah replied, you can not kill someone for assaulting someone else if you do not have relations with them. (i.e Party, Gang)