The Better Stealth/Reduced Size Tailsmen need Nerfed

[Bunziix]

http://plays.tv/video/5b5049c13635a24038/gmod-better-stealth-tailsman-buff-i-guess

 

Slow it down in the begining and look at how small and transparent the other guy was. i didnt even see him in the time of the event, i had to re watch the whole even in order to even see the guy

[Mr. Peanut Butter]

+1 I am pushing for this as well. it doesn't make any sense to have small models not be able to raid, but tiny invisible people is fine? I don't think so.

[1-800-Suicide]

To get the same size as a mini potion it requires about 5 talismans (0.4 of reulgar size) and it has diminishing returns and even a limit i think. I think if someone wants to use alot of resources to become smaller but also gamble by losing it on death its fine. Using things like grenades and shotguns i find the most effective against small people.

 

Better stealth is in a weird spot since it is really balanced on models with more details it is just harder to see people. with models that are 1 color without alot of detail like the burned man it is really hard to see against surfaces that are varied. In shadows after the change to how better stealth works it is really easy to see anyone using it. I personally think its fine since if you really want to play against better stealth you can base strategically where there are shadows and props aready make shadows and if you're really tryhard change your monitor settings to where its easy to see.

 

Also even if you use this combo the weapon is always 100% visible so that aids fighting it. Overall talismans should be kinda powerful since they are a bit harder to get and only last until you die.

 

edit: if you want some math on average it takes 2000 xp to get 1 desired talisman with the spirit caller perk

[Lunartique]

just hold a hand turret and point it at your door ulul

[Mori]

I thought you are not allowed to raid using reduced size because I did that once and was told not to do it again.

[Mr. Peanut Butter]

I thought you are not allowed to raid using reduced size because I did that once and was told not to do it again.

 

^^^

 

 

I think even if the talismans were designed to help in raids, I don't don't think they were meant to be stacked or used together like that. Also there is no noticeable difference between how the talisman camo is and how it used to be, especially on the charple model. Surely you don't think I'm so stupid that I don't know why people do this kind of stuff. Some of you play this game WAY too competitively and will do whatever it takes to always have the advantage over others. whether it is abusing a tiny bug, exploiting certain features, loopholing rules, or keeping quiet about a ridiculously OP swep or gun. for fuxks sake you have piklas fighting for it then you know its not good. I don't understand why you have to cling on to your crutches so tightly. I used to not be good at the game and played jugg mostly because I had no CCs to combat other CCs. Jugg was deemed unfair and it was nerfed to shit. Small models raiding was deemed unfair, and so now small models can't raid. You can't possibly think its fair to be the size of a normal models shin and almost entirely invisible and also raid. let it go.

 

If you don't believe me how bullshit it is give me a few minutes and I will give you some screenshots.

[Mr. Peanut Butter]

https://imgur.com/gallery/owIoVoa

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you guys are real mature downvoting the imgur post like I actually give a shit XD

[1-800-Suicide]

https://imgur.com/gallery/owIoVoa

 

"with models that are 1 color without alot of detail like the burned man it is really hard to see against surfaces that are varied" 

 

Thank you for proving this as the biggest problem with better stealth.

 

What I am saying since you clearly have an idea that I am trying to defend things that you find really op. If everyone used 6 reduced size talismans, a better stealth and gun jam in every raid there would be a huge drought of them in the market. people only use them either when they really want to overpower someone or tryhard a raid. As someone who doesn't raid basically ever I don't think you are in a good position to say what is or isn't overpowered in that situation. If I am spending 12000 pooled xp or whatever the talismans sell for for the same effects a minify potion and a invis potion but that they last until I die I think that is a good opportunity cost to get an edge when raiding. 12000 xp takes alot of time to farm on your own and from what I am seeing the top leaderboards on extracting spirits is around 200 a week. 200 a week is on average 5 desiarble talismans. If we give a generous number if you get lucky you get 8 desirable talismans A WEEK. that is essentially the price of being that strong in a raid. Using your example of the juggernaut that took 1 minute of voting and you didn't have any risk of losing your power unless you got fired or demoted which means it has a very low opportunity cost. My own example is raiding tools, I think they are too easy to get for the power that they provide, they are that easy to get so that new players can buy into raids faster but the power sayed. I have said before that raiding tools are in a strong position and should be nerfed in general but be more reliable, that would also in turn not have people use easy raiding tools to slip into a base fast with talismans and kill you, at this point with a good base you are looking at lets say 300k in c4, maybe around 100-200k in material bombs and if we say general price for the raid talismans is 60k thats 450k. total 850-950k for one raid, is that a reasonable price to win a raid easier? I think so and as seen in the calculations the talismans are the most expensive part of the raid. a raid that could fail.

 

Just looking at something and saying "yeah thats op needs nerf" is not viable long term, I have not seen arguments to why it is op relative to the cost (haven't seen anyone mention the cost) and more importantly, a fix to the problem if there is one. 

 

The solution that I see for better stealth is to automatically change people to a different texture like the leaves or something and make that darker and more transparent, that way models that actually are really strong with it won't be anymore and some models that before didn't get as much effect will.

 

Also is there a confirmation that using reduced size talismans aren't allowed in raiding? seems like a rumor imo.

 

Edit: here are a few models with better stealth and burned man for reference

http://prntscr.com/k8k3n3

http://prntscr.com/k8k41m

http://prntscr.com/k8k47p

http://prntscr.com/k8k4dv

http://prntscr.com/k8k4k9

http://prntscr.com/k8k4sg

  http://prntscr.com/k8k62v

 

As you can see some models that don't have the extra detail don't get as big effect as those with less details, the worst offender being burned man since hei is basically just a monichromatic skinny guy without any detail. Don't even get me started on how they look in shadows! but yanno why outsmart your opponents when you can blindly say something is op.

[Mr. Peanut Butter]

I actually do raid quite often and I do it with standard CP tools that everyone has access to without spending a bunch of money. Very rarely I may use a lockpick or blowtorch. If you feel like you need all those crutches to raid, you must just be really garbage at the game without them. I know for a fact that you specifically will just bomb entire bases with multiple C4. the fact that it costs you a lot of money or whatever sounds more like a pay to win than a gamble if it basically guarantees your victory and you do it every time.

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I think the camo on its own would even be okay since you can sort of see it on most models and it doesnt change your hitbox, although I don't get why you can't just have bush camo like everyone else so its somewhat noticeable. When its hard to tell where the shooter is halfway into a gunfight and then you are like "OH hes right there", its not good imo.

 

The small talisman might be okay on its own if you only used one and didn't stack them, but it doesnt make sense to me to allow them when small models are not supposed to raid, because its the same issue, even if its "created by sugar" it creates the same exact problems and complaints that I was trying to get rid of by suggesting that change the first 2 times. (Small models were not allowed in the server at all for a while.)

 

I think it's the fact that people are stacking multiple of them and using them in combination that is irritating most people.

 

I do not not yet confirmation if it is or is not allowed, but when multiple people are complaining about it, its my job as staff to come up with a solution, as in silver's case. Also with that as a precedent and having asked in staff chat what I should do with skrtskrt, I was told by Doc to ban him. Other staff disagreed after it was already too late, and skrt has yet to appeal, which I recommended he do since I am unsure where the line is between allowed and not allowed for these.

 

Also not important, but that skinny charred dude is called charple. burned man is the fallout mummy looking character

[1-800-Suicide]

I actually do raid quite often and I do it with standard CP tools that everyone has access to without spending a bunch of money. Very rarely I may use a lockpick or blowtorch. If you feel like you need all those crutches to raid, you must just be really garbage at the game without them. I know for a fact that you specifically will just bomb entire bases with multiple C4. the fact that it costs you a lot of money or whatever sounds more like a pay to win than a gamble if it basically guarantees your victory and you do it every time.

 

So you argument for people using them is that you don't use them and that means that other people should not because it makes them stronger?

 

If you have not tried using something and you are just saying it sounds overpowered why are you still making posts about "facts", against i re-iterate my point that you are not in a position to speak on the ins and outs on raiding when you do not use the tools and to my knowledge are inexperienced with the act.

 

I barely ever use fully juiced up materials on raids since for 1. there just aren't many big basers anymore and for 2. Raiding tools are strong enough to where I can get in and just have a firefight with the person without trying hard at all, most bases are 1 c4 or 1 timebomb, in rarer cases 2, now I would much rather see the skill of getting into a base nerfed so that people who do use the fully juiced resources have a harder time getting in and doing those firefights, effectively giving more time for the baser to react to that player.

 

"I think it's the fact that people are stacking multiple of them and using them in combination that is irritating most people."

Ofc it is the most irritating, someone spent more resources to have more power. I am sure people find it irritating that people can use a talisman and become invincible in a 1 on 1 or that someone is saving millions using free printer upgrades from talismans or that someone on cop used a talisman to have their nonlethal always work while being better stealthed. Point is that they chose to use it to be stronger. I made a chart about it if it is not clear enough.