Report on Ajax

[Zek]

Your In-Game Name:

Zek

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:1:66661657

Who are you reporting?:

ajax5206

Why are you reporting this player?:

Staff Bias

Do you have evidence related to this incident?:

Yes

So the incident started when I was able to raid Metchu's base which ajax is also part of, I was inside the base where all the raidables were. Seconds after I was inside, I see the dupe being removed and placed back. Metchu, was inside after unduping his base and he managed to kill me. 

I called a sit for FailRP and Ajax took it, at first I did not know that ajax was part of the base so I didn't suspect anything. Metchu admitted of unduping and killing even if he was unaware I was in the base. Ajax verbal warned him (which I thought at the time was quite a light punishment because Metchu didn't have a care in the world for what he did). I asked him if I can continue the raid where I was, he said he could reset the timer but I'd need to restart from outside. We had a big argument on why this is unfair and that I should be starting where I died unfairly and he couldn't bring any argument other than jewnm has the same opinion as me (jewnm was also in their party that I was raiding). He brought another staff in the sit, but he didn't know what to do in this situation on which I told them to provide a reason on why I should start outside the base and not inside where I died (Which they never did). 

They chose to let me raid outside the base, but not even 10 seconds inside the base, Ajax, Jewnm and all his party came and killed me and my friend just after the sit. Which led me to think that the sit was biased and Ajax never stated in the sit that he was part of the base or that it would be better to let another staff take the sit. 

I think this is clear bias from a staff who cares more about DarkRP cash than his staff position. To sum it up, he gave a light punishment to his party member (which a Smod agreed that it was considered as light punishment). Directly used the information and the decision he made in the sit to make it easier to kill me. His childish behavior shows after the sit, I tried to ask him in PMs for why he acted this way and he ignored me at first and then replied that he was in the right and there was nothing to be discussed about. He never once tried to find an equal ground with me to settle things down.

I think that if I died inside a raid unfairly, that I should be able to restart it where I died and not outside.

 

 

 

Matchu replying "bc I wanted to" when asked why he did it (PS :  he/she got verbal warned)  Doesn't seem like "an honest mistake" when he/she never apologized once and ignored me during the sit :

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Zek

[Rubik]

WOW, so just so I have a clear understanding here. You're saying Ajax claimed a sit on a guy that he was in a party and basing with, gave a verbal warning to him & forced you to restart your raid outside of the base even though his friend was the one that broke the rules? This doesn't look good.

Do you have any sort of evidence that can determine the actual time between the end of the sit and when they returned to the base to counter your raid?

[Zek]

3 hours ago, Rubik said:

WOW, so just so I have a clear understanding here. You're saying Ajax claimed a sit on a guy that he was in a party and basing with, gave a verbal warning to him & forced you to restart your raid outside of the base even though his friend was the one that broke the rules? This doesn't look good.

Don't forget that he's the one who killed me in that raid exactly 15 seconds after the sit 

& that he got confirmation of his decision from Jewnm who is also part of the party and who killed my teamate. 

 

Evidence you asked : 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Zek

[Zek]

3 hours ago, ajax5206 said:

Next, Zek insists to continue the raid from where he died. By the time the sit took place, matchu had already repasted his/her dupe with the faded props having been reset during the initial unpasting. If we continued the raid where they died, how would Zek leave? His carved out escape route through the dupe is gone. We also do not know if any members of matchu's party or any other raider is inside the base? Would we have to physgun drag everybody out and have Zek C4 his way OUT of the dupe? No. Instead, Tom and I mutually agreed to just reset the raid cooldown for Zek and allow him to raid again without having to wait 20 minutes. Therefore, both parties have a fair shot at succeeding and Tom & I don't have to physgun ruin everyone's RP in the building/base

I already addressed these points in the sit, the fact that I wouldn't have an escape route is only disadvantageous for me from my perspective. No members were inside the base and no one claimed they were inside the base and I don't know why you brought this fallacious argument to support an already fallacious point of view. I only blowtorched about 3-4 props at the end of the base which I could of redone before starting the raid, but again I don't see how me having no escape route is unfair to the other party? Also why does the blame go on me, when the fault is clearly Metchu's ?  Metchu is the one who deleted the base why is it me who should take the hit for not knowing where I blowtorched?

 

Also how in the world would you consider it fair for me to start from the outside when I died in less than a minute before starting it and you were ready to kill me? 

 

PS : I had access to over 20 proccesors and printers and the base that I raided was one of the hardest to raid (the one in the sewers) I will never acknowledge that restarting from outside when I had access to all these raidables before the incident happened is "FAIR". It would of taken Metchu 2-3 minutes to come inside legitimately and I would of been able to pack/destroy everything. He escaped this with a verbal warning with no apologizes and a happy ending. 

In what world do you consider this fair? You should not be staff for these exact statements!  
 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Zek

[Rubik]

I think you made a few bad choices here Ajax.

1. You claimed a sit related to a raid on a player you were basing with
2. You dictated how Zek (the victim) would continue the raid even though he requested to be put back where he was
3. You issued a lackluster punishment to someone who really showed zero remorse for their action
4. You immediately returned to the same position you just sent Zek and killed him as he restarted the raid as you told him to

I know exactly how I feel about this, but I'm going to leave the thread open in case anyone has any more information.

[Tom Cruize]

So I got involved in this sit also, Ajax asked for another mods advice during this sit, I teleported to him and was told the situation, I checked Matchu's warns and they were quite old he doesn't strike me as a player to break rules also I find it quite common for players to undo their dupes to gain entry so I suggested a verbal warn as it seemed like a misunderstanding, and told Zek that he could start the raid again with his timer at 0. 

If my judgement was flawed during that sit I completely understand if you wish to punish me, I did what I thought was best in that circumstance.

[Zek]

3 hours ago, theperpetualunknown said:

So I got involved in this sit also, Ajax asked for another mods advice during this sit, I teleported to him and was told the situation, I checked Matchu's warns and they were quite old he doesn't strike me as a player to break rules also I find it quite common for players to undo their dupes to gain entry so I suggested a verbal warn as it seemed like a misunderstanding, and told Zek that he could start the raid again with his timer at 0. 

If my judgement was flawed during that sit I completely understand if you wish to punish me, I did what I thought was best in that circumstance.

 I appreciate your honesty, but your mic was low during the sit and I couldn't completely hear your side. You should of taken into a count that Matchu had no remorse for what he did, I already addressed this in another thread I made but verbal warnings should only be given when there is no doubt that it was a mistake and this was far from a mistake. You were brought to the sit with the only purpose to agree with Ajax and never brought any reasoning behind what is fair and not fair to do.

That "missunderstanding" costed me a lot and the punishment at hand wasn't the issue, the issue is how I would be able to regain access to the raid.

If now you have all the information needed to evaluate what you did wrong or not, I think you should give your honest opinion as a staff. You should not be punished for Ajax's mistakes.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Zek

[Jewann]

Hey, I was involved in this, although i was nevee fully involved/fully made aware of the situation. My involvement was basically responding to ajaxs question about where the raid should begin, and I gave what was, to my knowledge the correct answer based on this quote from the MOTD:

 

 

And if you did die in a raid/heist, its simply over. You CANNOT come back and continue raiding/defending unless you die to a natural event.

If your raid is interrupted by a natural event (such as a train, being teleported by the pickle statue or a sit, any raid cooldown timers are voided. You may restart your raid immediately.

 

This never describes a situation in which the raid is continued from the last position, and the reason I told ajax to have the raid restart entirely from my knowledge was becausw of the potential risk of returning you to your position during the raid. In my mind, it was possible that during the sit, the basers had shuffles around in the base, and repasted the dupe. So it was possible that youd be returned to a base that had people inside, and there would be no point in continuing it as the same raid (the sit was nearly half an hour for context) It would not be fair to other members of the base to have to wait this long and then be told to leave the base because of a raid they were not eveb aware of. It is also possible that when you got returned, there would be a prop from the repasted dupe inside of your location, so you could be propstuck, and immediately unfairly killed, and have to unfairly wait another 20 minutes before raiding. So in my opinion, it was simplest, and most fair to just restart the raid with you on the outside, although, I agree the adittional defense of the staff member who took the sit feels scummy.

 

The information I had did not include the fact that you had practically won the initial raid, but im not so sure that changes my response. It definitely changes how I feel, and I do think that it was unfair for your raid to be taken away from you, but even so, the MOTD only states that a raid may be restarted if interrupted by a natural event such as a sit, but it never defines any circumstance under which a player should be returned to a partially finished raid, and especially never states that they should be returned to a partially finished raid of a base that has had people disconnected from the situation in it for 30 minutes while a sit took place. I do believe there should be some circumstances in which players can be returned to partially finished raids. However, I do not believe that the MOTD or any guidelines, as they are written, support this notion.

 

As for whether or not matchu should have been warned, my general rule is that if they undid dupe to enter, but recognized the situation, i give a verbal, but if they repasted dupe after undoing and having the opportunity to recognize a raid, i give an actual warn. In this case, it seems that matchu did repaste the dupe, and even admitted to it, so I would generally warn, but that is just my opinion.

 

I hope I have provided some useful information/context to this report.

[Tom Cruize]

I'm afraid I completely disagree with your statement  "You were brought to the sit with the only purpose to agree with Ajax and never brought any reasoning behind what is fair and not fair to do." 

First of all I voluntarily teleported to that sit and second, that was most definitely not my only purpose, I'm sorry that my mic might have been a bit quiet but I believe I gave my input from a neutral perspective.

Yes certain aspects of what Matchu did might be seen as unfair to you but from an outside perspective I saw a player undo his dupe to gain entry to his base unknowingly with you in it which appeared to be a mistake also I should ask the question would it be fair to teleport you back with the dupe down, again my opinion it seems fair to just re-raid with your timer at nil.

 

[Zek]

7 hours ago, Jewann said:

The information I had did not include the fact that you had practically won the initial raid, but im not so sure that changes my response. It definitely changes how I feel, and I do think that it was unfair for your raid to be taken away from you, but even so, the MOTD only states that a raid may be restarted if interrupted by a natural event such as a sit, but it never defines any circumstance under which a player should be returned to a partially finished raid, and especially never states that they should be returned to a partially finished raid of a base that has had people disconnected from the situation in it for 30 minutes while a sit took place. I do believe there should be some circumstances in which players can be returned to partially finished raids. However, I do not believe that the MOTD or any guidelines, as they are written, support this notion.

The fact that you gave your input to ajax with lack of information shows the intentions of ajax, I was completely inside the base and managed to blow 2 proccesors during the fight with Matchu. MOTD used to have this rule "DO use common sense" and this situation is one of them where the current MOTD lacks in information to give a fair trial. 

Again, let's assume you were to TP me inside the base after the sit and someone was already inside the base because of how long the sit took ... How is that my fault? The whole situation happened because of Matchu and not even he didn't get punished but he got away with several of his goods undamaged. The fault rests on him and not me who played fair, it is also quite cowardly to saw "it definitely changes how I feel, and od think that it was unfair" but you still go to the MOTD to justify what is in your opinion unfair.

Not only that, but you never acknowledge your part in the raid, where you came directly after the sit and killed my teamate.

6 hours ago, theperpetualunknown said:

I'm afraid I completely disagree with your statement  "You were brought to the sit with the only purpose to agree with Ajax and never brought any reasoning behind what is fair and not fair to do." 

First of all I voluntarily teleported to that sit and second, that was most definitely not my only purpose, I'm sorry that my mic might have been a bit quiet but I believe I gave my input from a neutral perspective.

Yes certain aspects of what Matchu did might be seen as unfair to you but from an outside perspective I saw a player undo his dupe to gain entry to his base unknowingly with you in it which appeared to be a mistake also I should ask the question would it be fair to teleport you back with the dupe down, again my opinion it seems fair to just re-raid with your timer at nil.

 

 I never said what Matchu did warrants a ban, what i'm trying to argue and what I repeatedly asked you and ajax in the sit, was, why is that reasonable that I start outside even thought you guys have access to logs that shows where I died, the sit was poorly handled just by the fact you didn't even look into my death location. 

So even after telling you that I died in nearly seconds from the staff who took my sit after my sit, you still think it was fair? Because you have yet to justify your position, saying "my opinion seems fair" isn't responding to the question at all.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Zek