mod breaking NLR, claiming his own report and claiming no wrongdoing

[Wilhelm Panderino]

Your In-Game Name:

CommonHat431

Your Steam ID:

 

Who are you reporting?:

Dreadmore

Why are you reporting this player?:

NLR

Do you have evidence related to this incident?:

Yes

I killed him for scanning my evidence which added 5k to my bounty and slowed my movement speed for 10 seconds. He instantly came back to his evidence 15 seconds later and scanned his own evidence jar. Effectively breaking NLR, i called a demote on him for NLR. He pulls me into a sit and asks why i rdmed him as well as why i false demoted him. I said he broke NLR by coming back to his place of death and interacting with his own evidence. He claimed it was allowed. I said i would then like to make a report against him for the NLR (an Smod was online) he said go ahead, ill just claim it. (effectively making the report pointless as he clearly doenst understand how NLR works.)

i ended up getting a verbal warn for false demote

Edited January 31, 2023 by Wilhelm Panderino

[Dreadmore]

Good Evening,

 

From my recollection of the events he is referring to, here is my response.

 

While this occurred I was a detective scanning any evidence on the street. With so many people dying there is a lot of evidence on the ground. As I am scanning the evidence, I am killed by Wilhelm (CommonHat431) for what appears to be no reason. This was not the first time he had attempted to RDM me, about seven minutes prior after fining him he attempted to shoot me and was arrested. At the time, I wasn't even aware I had scanned his evidence. (That is why I had accused him of RDM but also why he was not punished for it).

 

The issue is, generally, this was a misunderstanding towards intent. As a detective you can not see who's evidence you are scanning and unlike Wilhelm is attempting to make this seem, there was not just my evidence jar, there was about 4 or 5 jars in the street in a tight grouping. Unlike Wilhelm is trying to make this seem, I was not sprinting to my jar to scan it so I could arrest him or fine him, I was walking down the street scanning other evidence before coming to those jars. Unlike Wilhelm is trying to make it seem, I was not the only person dying in that area as there were about 80 players on with a consistent kill feed going on (And fountain is always a hotspot for deaths).

 

I attempted to verbally resolve this in a sit with him but instead I got a un-calm and close minded approach from Wilhelm as he clearly was not trying to listen, even claiming he was going to mute me. When I politely asked to explain he told me there was only one side. He even came as far as gloating about how many staff members he has reported, saying he would make it "an easy four". He told me that I was not allowed to take my own sits, which I informed him was false. He asked for Tyz to come and I asked Tyz if he was available in game but he was AFK. I gave him a verbal warning to be careful with demoting players for not RP reasons (Rules violations) as it is strongly recommended in the rules to make a ticket for these things or consult staff.

 

In Conclusion, the Detective's job is to scan evidence. The evidence jars are not labeled with who they belong to and have a short lifetime before disappearing. It does tell me who committed the murder but not towards who. The jars were on a public street where a lot of players were at and dying. I had no clue who's evidence I was scanning and I figured by the time I returned to that spot my evidence would be gone after scanning many other's evidence along the street.

 

Without looking at intent and totality of the situation it could be construed as NLR but reasonably speaking and looking at the totality of the situation a reasonable person would more than likely find it was okay to continue scanning evidence around the map as that is what the Job's RP role is and factoring in the short lifespan of a evidence bottle. (Adherent to the NLR "Use your best judgement")

 

Hopefully this is able to clear this up for you Wilhelm, I tried to explain this to you but you were very unreasonable during the sit making it impossible for me to do so. 

 

(Also if you do happen to make a response, please include your STEAM-ID so I can try to find those logs I exported)

 

Respectfully,

Dreadmore

[Crabroll]

After reading this report, here are three things that jump to mind.

 

First, the location of this activity. If Dreadmore was killed and he ran to the corner of the map where there is NO OTHER REASON to be there except to break nlr and arrest you then that is very bad. However, the location of this event is near fountain, a place that u basically have to go past to go anywhere. The argument that you can take the long paths around or whatever is irrelevent. 

 

Second, Dreadmore is right, if there is a constant killfeed, evidence is unmarked. He wouldn't be able to tell which one is his until he scans it. 

 

Finally, this is found in the Misc rules section of the MOTD. "If someone failed to perform their job functions correctly (Ex: A cop let their friend have a gun without a license) you can /demote them. If they broke a rule against you (Ex: RDM) you could demote them but we highly suggest calling a sit. Contact someone before calling a /demote on them for breaking a rule against you. If you are unsure, ask for staff assistance."

 

DId you contact them before calling a demote on them? And if you believed it to be a rule break, why did you not default to calling a sit first? 

 

Regarding Dreadmore taking his own sit, Late night's on a weekday, staff will always be running short and as we can see, he tried to reach out to Tyz but he was AFK. So Dreadmore is allowed to take his own sit given he is unbias.

 

From the evidence provided by both parties it does not look like dreadmore was breaking any rules or abusing at all. 
 

However this is honestly not that big of a deal do i would suggest just revert everyone to their state before this happened and I see dreadmore already done so. If an smod or higher can clarify their thoughts to the team and to dreadmore as it seems even among staff there is different opinion, I think that is best so everyones on the same page.

 

-1 to punishment on dreadmore 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Crabroll

[Blue.]

This is a petty report dude... -1 for any punishment. I'd say you're lucky you got a verbal with how you approach sits and act like you know it all or are better than any staff you're in contact with.

 

[cobaselic]

Dreadmore came back and scanned his own evidence right after he was killed. Whether it was coincidental or not, it is breaking NLR. The demote was valid, so you getting a verbal shouldn't have happened. I'm sure we can remove that.

 

As for how the sit was handled, you're saying one thing and he's saying another. So unless there's video evidence of the sit, there's really no way to prove which version of the story is true. You said that you have evidence, please provide it if possible. If you don't have evidence, this report will probably end with having your verbal removed.

[Dreadmore]

 

28 minutes ago, cobaselic said:

Dreadmore came back and scanned his own evidence right after he was killed. Whether it was coincidental or not, it is breaking NLR. The demote was valid, so you getting a verbal shouldn't have happened. I'm sure we can remove that.

 

As for how the sit was handled, you're saying one thing and he's saying another. So unless there's video evidence of the sit, there's really no way to prove which version of the story is true. You said that you have evidence, please provide it if possible. If you don't have evidence, this report will probably end with having your verbal removed.

I went ahead and removed the verbal warning. 

 

 

[KittyKatMaeve]

It needs to be clarified that Scanning your own evidence is NLR.  I have seen other detectives do it all the time and no one has ever called a sit about it. i Feel this person called a sit simply because they were pissed off at getting slowed. This is further proven by how it sounds that the sit was dealt with Wilheim being rude and entitled clearly not wanting to cooperate. there were other staff members on if he was really bothered by Dread taking the sit then he should have said so and demanded another staff member take the sit, instead he acted rude and like he didnt do anything wrong by rdming Dread. -1 for punishment

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by KittyKatMaeve
Forgot ruling for punishment

[Guest]

as far as pertaining to the sit it is a he said she said type thing. willhelm you always seem to be recording the fact your not presenting it raises a red flag for me personally however this is speculation and will not effect my decision on rating this post. previous sit i have had with you, you came across confrontational and i have witnessed the attitude mentioned above.

If dreadmore was scanning every DNA canister he saw i could understand him accidentally re-scanning his own if there were more scattered around. not sure what his goal for scanning them all was but im assuming XP or a quest. without some evidence to prove either side of this im going to have to give it

-1 for punishment on dreadmore +1 for removal of said verbal (which seems to have been preemptively done already)

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Insurance Agent

[PandaManiac]

7 minutes ago, KittyKatMaeve said:

It needs to be clarified that Scanning your own evidence is NLR.  I have seen other detectives do it all the time and no one has ever called a sit about it. i Feel this person called a sit simply because they were pissed off at getting slowed. This is further proven by how it sounds that the sit was dealt with Wilheim being rude and entitled clearly not wanting to cooperate. there were other staff members on if he was really bothered by Dread taking the sit then he should have said so and demanded another staff member take the sit, instead he acted rude and like he didnt do anything wrong by rdming Dread. 

 

 im going to have to agree and say -1 for any punishments from me. I personally had no idea scanning your own evidence was NLR since i see players do it all the time and i feel if dread was not a staff then a report would not have been made

[Guest]

i feel its quite obvious NLR but the intent is my concern, if hes just scanning every DNA cluster he sees i could understand accidently tagging the same one twice depending on how much death was going on, either way video to clear it up or atleast some screenshots would be helpfuly

7 minutes ago, PandaManiac said:

I personally had no idea scanning your own evidence was NLR since i see players do it all the time and i feel if dread was not a staff then a report would not have been made