An open discussion on scamming.

[Timezone]

Hi! Warren here.

I've noticed recently that people have been getting away with scamming and after reading the motd have found that it's not only acceptable, but people can technically get away with scamming over a million dollars due to the looseness of the rule. It states.-

"DO trade at your own discretion and do your research. Being scammed 1 Mil or more DakrRP cash or any amount of IRL money or Suga Dollars is subject to review and punishment. Ask for a staff witness if you are unsure of a transaction"

 

I think the intention of this rule is to alleviate pressure on moderators who shouldnt have to answer to sits for every transaction that goes on in the server. 

 

However, the logs do show how much money someone has and has spent at any given point. I am not sure what other logs moderators and administrators have access to and I don't want to make assumptions.

 

I want this to be an open discussion on this topic.

 

My view is that scamming should be a bannable offense at any scale. I don't believe it adds to RP and encourages toxicity. I also dont think it's reasonable, both for the admin and the player, that an admin should be expected to be called for every transaction over a million dollars.

This also is extremely discouraging to new players who hop on the server to have a good time only to be scammed by someone and start their time at TitsRP broke and on the wrong foot. 

I've genuinely tried looking at any good side to scamming and I cant reasonably justify any reason for it. 

Maybe some of you out there will clarify why this is accepted and backed by rules.

 

Again, I appreciate everyone who is taking the time to read over this and have an actual discussion as to whether or not this is something that should be allowed. I really enjoy this server and the people in it and have tried hard to avoid getting on people's bad side.  Thank you all!

 

- Warren

[VoN]

In all honesty, I personally believe that whoever thought scamming was a good idea in general, is completely in the wrong.

 

The fact that people are even allowed to get away with scamming people JUUST below the 1m limit, is honestly fucking stupid. It becomes a potential permanent ban when it goes over 1m, but people are abusing that limit by scamming people around 900k.

 

Either way, scamming is fucking pointless and it only stirs drama in the server, aswell as disinterest and anger. I will never believe, nor understand, how it's justified in any means whatsoever. Feel free to argue with me, but my opinion and view on it won't change at all, no matter what scenario.

 

1+ Make scamming bannable.

[Money]

Well warren this is darkrp we roleplay here just like in real life and in real life you can get scammed for a bunch of money if you were buying illegal guns, drugs , printing money ect so its allowed

 

Is it shitty of the person to do ? absolutely

 

the whole scamming over 1M is stating that thats the limit were it doesnt become RP anymore your just scamming somebody out of hours and hours of work like not cool

 

1M is not alot of money theres people with 100M and have cc"s worth over 500M or even more

 

I have never been scammed ever just use !trade or only do deals over 1M for printers and procs between those two if you get scammed thats your own fault its pretty easy not to

 

[ hes talking about the VIP token scam thing ]

[VoN]

Well warren this is darkrp we roleplay here just like in real life and in real life you can get scammed for a bunch of money if you were buying illegal guns, drugs , printing money ect so its allowed

 

Is it shitty of the person to do ? absolutely

 

the whole scamming over 1M is stating that thats the limit were it doesnt become RP anymore your just scamming somebody out of hours and hours of work like not cool

 

1M is not alot of money theres people with 100M and have cc"s worth over 500M or even more

 

I have never been scammed ever just use !trade or only do deals over 1M for printers and procs between those two if you get scammed thats your own fault its pretty easy not to

 

[ hes talking about the VIP token scam thing ]

 

1: Your logic is utterly flawed. Just because the regulars on the server have way more money than newer players who're victim to being scammed easily, doesn't make it justified in any way.

2 :This is a DarkRP server, we're here to have fun, real life flaws such as scamming should not be applied to a game. New players are quite literally being shooed off because they're having hard work taken away from them just because of this incredibly flawed rule.

3: No matter how much money you're scammed for, it's still assets that a player accumulated by grinding on the server. It doesn't matter how much money you're scammed for, it still happens. That's what's wrong.

 

Also, I will point out now that some players don't even know a trading mechanic exists in the first place. People are also scamming eachother by gambling. (DaddyEG scammed around 12 players yesterday using that method, including myself.)

[nanights]

Honestly when I buy stuff from players I’m very cautious. I only buy stuff from players that I’ve seen around for a while and have a good feel towards em. 

 

I do believe scamming shouldn’t be allowed period however money does bring out a very good point of view. Scamming irl happens almost every hours. If not sooner. Somewhere in the world lol.

 

Overall I’m trying to say is don’t go buying something off someone that you’ve never seen before or heard about. Plus (idk if players are able to see reps of others) that’s why there is a repping program which should be used a lot more then it should be. If your gonna trust some guy that has -10+ reps of potential scamming then I would very much question your trade buisness.

[Slick]

If you guys aren't using !trade to make transactions, that's on you for being big dumb.

[VoN]

If you guys aren't using !trade to make transactions, that's on you for being big dumb.

 

doesn't seem like you realize there's ways to scam that don't involve !trade

[Timezone]

That's a fair point, I see where you're coming from. If you take a real life situation and apply it to this it does make sense. I can neither go to the police station nor file a realistic lawsuit if I sell heroin and someone didn't pay me.

However people are being scammed for in-game items that dont exist in real life.

 

I do understand that 1mil is not a lot of in-game money. I'm just trying to make a point for people that are new to the server who might not know how to go about making good money nor have 1 mil to their name. I've seen new players get excited just receiving 50k. 

 

Another point to be made is that just because it can occur in real life, doesnt mean it has to occur in a game. In real life people can say the N word all day and night and be protected by the first amendment (In the U.S) but we don't allow that in the server. 

This is less about the amount of money and more about the principal of the matter, and that is, in my opinion, that scamming adds no real RP value and discourages new players from having a good time.

 

Edit: I also believe that the rep system doesn't help very much. If I -rep a scammer, they can -rep me back. And then I'm the one that will eventually have 10 -reps and I'll the one that looks sketchy in future transactions. It doesn't help at all.

[Timezone]

I do want to reiterate my point on the rep system. 

If I -rep a scammer they can -rep me back.

Over time I will also have a lot of -rep which will lead to me looking like a sketchy trader.

This is a serious flaw in the rep system that is being overlooked in my opinion.

Also, I want to reiterate that my point is being made for new players. People who aren't regulars or arent the wiser are going to be turned away from something like this. 

I feel like this matter should be taken into better consideration and dismissing it by just saying It's the victims fault for being scammed and ignoring it and moving on doesn't really provide a viewpoint nor built on it.

I'm personally a little taken aback that this much staff is backing this and want to point out that just because it's a rule that's written down, doesn't mean it's right and that's what I'm ultimately trying to drive at.

 

What does scamming add to the server in terms of fun or growth. Again, I understand it happens in real life. A lot happens in real life that are against the rules.

[Walter the Assaulter]

doesn't seem like you realize there's ways to scam that don't involve !trade

What ways would those be? The only one I can think of involves gun stands, but those will literally tell you what you are actually buying before you buy something. Anything else (I'll buy you VIP which is 5m but you pay 999,999 which is conveniently under the scam limit) is either not allowed as per the server rules or are so ridiculous I don't believe anyone who doesn't read the MOTD and sees scamming is allowed in the first paragraph would fall for it.

people can technically get away with scamming over a million dollars due to the looseness of the rule

"you absolutely cannot scam over this set limit in any given transaction otherwise you will be permanently banned" is a loose rule?

I also dont think it's reasonable, both for the admin and the player, that an admin should be expected to be called for every transaction over a million dollars.

You do think it's reasonable that an admin could be called for every transaction period?

I've genuinely tried looking at any good side to scamming and I cant reasonably justify any reason for it. 

Role play. I have somewhere around 3800 hours on gmod, all in DarkRP. It's called role play.

just because it can occur in real life, doesnt mean it has to occur in a game.

Just because it "can't" occur in real life doesn't mean it can't occur in a game.

scamming adds no real RP value

This makes no sense. Absolutely regulating every single trade that players do with an influence outside RP is an extreme detriment to RP. RP stands for "role play," not admin-regulated safety scissor cut in the lines play. We have regulations in place to avoid detriments to RP like RDM or losing your IRL money, and free trades aren't stopping people from enjoying their RP. Scummy people exist IRL, and if you're scammed by a random person on the street for $10 you aren't going to be able to get your money back. See: Things like 3 card monte scams.

 

Overall, I honestly believe this discussion does have merit but so far hasn't been given any support worth considering. You're trying to avoid the entire point of "it honestly just pisses players off" by using the "new players should be able to be braindead zombies and literally apply no sense to trades and be safe" argument. Just say it. It pisses people off, but if it's allowed you should use at least 3 brain cells and 99% of all scams can be avoided. At some point, people have to look out for their own interests. That point probably starts with saying "okay I can lose 1400 to this gun dealer but that's cool, but maybe with giving this random guy on the street 500k I should ask to see the merchandise first or use !trade."

 

-1 for now. Any replies relating to "no RP value" or "no reason to allow" will embolden my views for the reasons listed above. Saying it is detrimental to new players is fine, but at some point you need to apply the cells in your brain you used to actually operate a computer in the first place. Give specific examples and logical reasoning. This is a huge rule to change and I'd like for my mind to be changed, but at this point I can't support it.