Hoopajoop

This argument gets downplayed is largely because the only the people that handle the server's money have a stake in it, and counters to said argument can only really be made after a lot of questions about how donations are managed are answered. Honestly, it's way over most regular player's heads. tbh i don't think a lot of people even know where to begin on that one-- as it should largely be up to the money handlers to figure out potential refunds if a cash-making donation dealio they came up with proves to later be problematic with a sizable chunk of the playerbase in the first place. It might even be a moot point entirely, since the cash shop ToS states: so idk, in that light maybe it's not so valid an argument.

these discussions typically get up to around five pages or so before before petering out and no changes get made

kidnapping is an incredibly unfun mechanic that probably wouldn't be so bad if CC's weren't allowed to kidnap but that's not gonna happen because people have dropped money into it already it's become little more than a minge tool and a method of sparking free and legal RDM at this point lower the timer for kidnapped persons to suicide and get back into playing on the server-- the whole reason they're here to begin with. bring the kidnapping ransom in line with other player-set methods of forcibly taking money (mugging/fines/etc) take take bludgeons off of CCs and disallow them from kidnapping-- let stock kidnapping jobs have their usefulness and identity, much for the same reasons we don't let CCs get necromancer staff or grim reaper scythe. not gonna happen because for whatever reason people are worried about screwing up an already infinitely-inflating joke of an economy or RL cash refunds but w/e figure out a consequence or risk for kidnappers. right now if a kidnapper gets killed, it's whatever, just respawn and try to kidnap someone else. kidnapping base raided? doesn't matter, throw down the dupe again. there is absolutely zero risk of a kidnapper losing anything-- and that is a bit inconsistent with other criminal methods of making money in a base.

When the bat was first introduced, I was also convinced it was OP and needed a nerf, but after thinking it over I'm not so sure. Keep in mind I say the following having never used or even wanting to use the bat myself. Nerfing the bat would only lead to folks going back to the USAS (0.2 sec time to kill vs 100hp) or the Leone Auto Shotty (0.4 sec time to kill vs 100hp) like they did before the bat's introduction. If people don't want to deal with the risk of missing a chunk of spread, even the Desert Eagle (0.3 sec time to kill vs 100hp) could be considered more effective and can be used at range. Barring that, from the data I've gathered, there isn't a single automatic rifle that has a time-to-kill vs 100hp that is over 0.4 seconds. Only 20 guns have a TTK vs 100hp over 0.4 seconds. Not including sniper rifles and shotguns that effectively 1-shot unarmored 100hp targets, there are a total of 55 guns that can be bought from suppliers that are outright more effective than the bat in that regard. None of this is even accounting for headshot damage, which if I'm not mistaken cannot be attained through melee. The humble knife can kill a fully armored target with a simple stab/throw combo, which can be done pretty f'ing fast. idk Bat's only really useful of the user pops a beastial potion, the noise of which gives a measure of forewarning to a potential target so said potential target can likewise pop a beastial or use a movement SWEP to create distance-- invalidating the bat entirely. let the boys meme their bat, i say unless someone can post the exact server-settings damage and fire-rate and it's found to be significantly more powerful than other weapons (also if anyone offhand knows exactly how armor mechanics work or what the EHP of an armored target at 100, 120, and 150HP is please lemme know i would be eternally grateful kthx)

Same. One one hand I've had staff give a verbal warning for building around portal. On the other I've had staff tell me that a box even tighter than the one I'd built around the portal was fine.

Figured there was more context to it-- thanks for the clarification.

You may not remove a Dupe to bring Entities inside of your base, then replace your Dupe. This is declared FailRP. How hard and fast are we on reporting and enforcing this rule? 'Cause I've noticed an alarming number of high-profile players (staff included) either unaware of it or willfully trampling all over it and I kinda don't wanna be that guy that starts slapping down a load of recordings and reports out of nowhere over something that at first blush seems a bit innocuous.

Be wary tho, as a lot of people that enable the Chromium branch can't hear boomboxes. ymmv

I feel like there was a lot of asspulling and anecdotes with the numbers regarding the "economics" of a raid, 'cause I've seen some wildly different prices in entity trading and doesn't take into account explosives and other raiding tools pulled basically for free from either crafting or processing or quests or bought at a discount, etc. So I'm not gonna touch too much on that for now. But.... As it stands now, I disagree with this. There is more knowledge and resources tied to raiding than skill. The difference between a good raider and a bad raider depends more on which one knew to take the "Launcher" gang talent and which one has more explosives at their disposal than anything we can really quantify as "skill", I think. Well yeah. This is largely because tossing a smoke grenade and punting in a cooked C4 is not terribly difficult. Take this with a grain of salt, I've never seen you raid before and I'm in no way trying to imply that you're unskilled, but from what I've observed in my basing/raiding experiences is that there's not a whole lot that can be done against a raider with enough C4 on hand unless you have a group you can call for backup. On top of that, a majority of the buildings on the map are so small that even measuring and planning for C4 radii, it will only take two or three at max to wreck all of the props, and that -really- puts non-VIPs and new players at a disadvantage because they can't use dupes. And that's not to disparage raiders, by any means. With the current building rules, they basically have no choice but to fling in explosives, as trying to crouchwalk and blowtorch/lockpick/crack your way into any of these serpentine one-way'd deathtraps is suicide. Again, I can't speak much to the economics of the matter, but if the basing/raiding meta were healthy and fun we'd see -far- more basing and raiding going on. One of the data points I was working on collecting was counting the number of active bases at any given hour I was on and those numbers were low. Like... Really low compared to the server's population. If I had to guess I'd say most players were more content with selling their entities directly than trying to base around them. I'll post the metrics I have once I have a full week's worth of data, but so far it hasn't been looking like anything healthy.

Shoot a shotgun from a far range on a flat prop and count the bullet holes idk if im doing something wrong on my end, but i tried this the other night and could never get anymore than 3 bullet holes to show with any of the shotguns i tested with :x

I believe a simple building rule stating "If you can see and shoot them, they must be able to see and shoot you" along with dialing back C4/Makeshift explosion radius (so smaller buildings can potentially be viable again) and making them ungravable could work wonders for the basing/raiding meta. A step in the right direction, if nothing else.

That's not entirely true. My main beef with kidnapping is how prevalent it can get at times. Like, I start having to focus more on not letting anybody get behind me than interacting with other players or doing anything else for that matter. Turns more into a game of "dodge the bludgeon" than DarkRP, and I personally find mechanics that take players out of the game for no real reason to be kinda mingy and toxic as shit to begin with. I realize that there's not a whole lot that can be done about it at this juncture, but I just wanted to clarify that it's not just new players that take issue with it.

There are a lot of factors at work when it comes to basing and raiding-- I've actually been trying to gather actual data and videos to punctuate points over the past week, but it's been really slow-going. Since you're breaching the topic tho, I'll share my thoughts on the matter so far. In short, in the current state of things both basing and raiding are OP in their own way and require eachother to be OP to maintain anything anything even attempting to pass itself off as balanced. On the raiding side, you've got C4 that can be cooked down to a fraction of a second before getting punted into a base. Raiders can use smokes or even slap down deployable barricades at the entrance to ensure that the C4 cannot be shot out and away. The cost of C4 isn't even really so much of a factor anymore as you can easily wind up with a pretty healthy stock of explosives after a night or three of sitting on procs. On the basing side, you've got one-ways, thin shooting slits, and typically long winding designs. Bonus points if you've got a legendary sniper rifle. Technically these can be raided with just a lockpick and/or keypad cracker as the rules demand, but practically they require the use of explosives to get through unless the defenders are afk. Any decent base design will be built so that a raider can be shot, but has no real hope for meaningful retaliation, so they pretty much have no choice but to use C4/makeshifts. This dynamic also puts something of a limit on which buildings can and cannot support a decent base due to the building's size vs the explosive radius, which further discourages people from basing. The advantage is generally goes to the raider, but if you can snag a really long base (like that one in the sewers) the advantage flips to the defender in a big way. If you nerf explosives, basing gets even more OP. If you change basing rules, explosives get even more OP. If there is to be any meaningful change to the meta, there needs to be a change on both fronts. Until then, the meta's gonna remain a contest of who can lean harder on their crutch.

It's a fine and incredibly helpful table, no doubt, but it doesn't cover things like the blundergat and a couple others. Also reskins. That, and there's no way afaik to 100% verify that the numbers for shotgun pellets are correct. Would also be nice to be able to tell at a glance in-game instead of having to pull up and look through a list. :p

don't mean to pry, but is there any followup on this? :x

idk how feasible it would be, but displaying damage-per-pellet x number-of-pellets would be pretty cool i.e. instead of displaying 11 for damage when looked at on the ground or in inventory, the bulldog shotgun would display 11x5

well yeah dude, there exists a mechanic that is basically legal and consequence-free RDM/mugging/RDA rolled into one with effectively no job limit that at times requires players to be nearly 100% focused on avoiding it rather than doing something stupid like interacting with other players or like playing the game or w/e that is also incredibly inconsistent with other jobs that necessitate theft or killing or restraint-- and instead of looking a little deeper into the why of threads like this and having a discussion many long-time players or players in positions of power (often those that make frequent use of said mechanic) are too content to offer non-arguments or to leave a drive-by comment in support of maintaining the status quo that players often complain about. of course people are gonna get a little shitter shattered about it that said, after thinking about it im not sure removing the bludgeon from cc's is the solution-- ideally it shouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place, but it appears we're in far too deep for outright removal at this point i think.

I'm out of the loop, what is this?

Cops have to follow a different set of rules, too. Like.... if CC cops could RDA and raid with impunity, you'd have a point-- but that's not the case here. No payback necessary if nothing gets removed, right?

getting arrested =/= getting kidnapped If rules are being followed, you did something in order to get arrested-- it's a consequence of your actions as a player. It is a reaction from world around you and something you can expect and prepare for. It has a purpose. Kidnapping, not so much. It's not apples to apples and kinda pointless to render a comparison. I suggest that CCs with bludgeons and bludgeon reskins should have to choose between falling under the can-raid thief category or falling under the no-raid kidnapper category. That way people who paid for bludgeon reskins can keep them if they feel that strongly about living that kidnapper life.

Bounties are acquired as a result of a player's own actions. They're deserved, in a way. Kidnappings happen at random, often with no rhyme or reason. Bounties are handled by cops, and cop CCs-- both of whom operate under a whole 'nother set of rules. Kidnapping can be done by any CC. Got a cc? buy a bludgeon. swing it around. oh what you missed, just bestial potion and hop to the other side of the map or into a base for safety, or even if you die w/e just try again with someone else as soon as you respawn consequences dont exist here bb So it's not exactly apples to apples between kidnapping and bounties. Which, now that I think about it, why do non-CP CCs with bludgeons get to fall under both kidnapper -and- thief rules? They should have to choose between raiding/stealing or kidnapping.

ye +1, kidnapping is ass and i know im not the only one board to death of being subjected to the most unfun mechanic this server has to offer for daring to reply to something in chat out in the open always feels like too many kidnappers are running around at any given time-- a lot of them don't even do anything. just kidnap and throw you in the sewers or w/e so that you can not play the game until you can suicide rl money is involved now, so i'm doubtful anything will change tho

Ah, that I did not know. Couldn't find any previous reports about it. :x Of course.

When you can slap down as many 32x32 plates as your prop limit allows, I don't think there's any feasible reason that any of the smaller sizes should be blacklisted.

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