Report on user Togi for RDM, mishandled sit

[catto]

Your In-Game Name:

catto

Your Steam ID:

STEAM_0:0:939545031

Who are you reporting?:

STEAM_0:0:50836678

Why are you reporting this player?:

This player rdmed me while trying to loophole it using party assist [which he yelled after killing me] the sit was mishandled by a mod who didn't look deep enough into the evidence.
I was given a hit on this users party member who was on the beach at the flag base, after killing the party member at beach Togi found me in indust around 2 mins later and RDMed me.
When the sit was taken the staff in question didnt even want to see my clip after i offered to show them what happend insted he looked at Togis clip and said that this was a kill within rp. which i disagreed because he "chased me" across 5 districts and did his party assist yell after i was already dead. Gumbowl the staff involved said that this kill was valid due to Togi watching me kill his party member on the beach.

Do you have evidence related to this incident?:

Yes

Relevant Info:

https://streamable.com/tj40jh

[choom]

This is pretty clearly RDM. Even if you had shot a party member right then and there, it still would be invalid for the late party assist. 

• If you're going to kill someone because they attacked your party or gang member, you need to make sure they know you're together BEFORE you assist in a roleplay scenario. (Local chat: “/y Party/Gang assist!”) (not OOC/Advert/Voice). Not doing so will cause confusion and most likely result in a sit that no one wants. (This applies to raiding as well) 

More than a sufficient amount of time has passed to deny any KOS'able action involving party assist or self defense therefore I am 

+1 for a RDM warn
+1 for a talk to Gumbowl
 

[Mordecai]

Togi showed me the clip of it happening from his perspective, he saw catto kill his party member, even saying "he killed him I saw". they were both using a jetpack zipping around, and they chased them down and killed them. I tried looking for a time limit on party assists in the rules and I couldn't find anything on that. Togi also did say party assist after he killed catto.

 

"More than a sufficient amount of time has passed to deny any KOS'able action involving party assist or self defense" Again I couldn't find anything pertaining to time limits on party assists so to me the kill looked valid since he was actively chasing and searching the whole time. He didn't just kill them as they strolled past each other half an hour later or something. I assumed it was similar with something like arresting someone. If someone commits a crime and then flies across the map they are still AOS no? Happy to be educated on party assists, as that's not something I'm super familiar with or could find in the rules.

[MistaMousey]

This is clear cut, and I personally don't blame Gumbowl for this as we don't have specific timing for this stuff, its just "sufficient time"

 

 

+1 for RDM warn

 

Possible +1 to have time be put on rules for "sufficient time" like NLR timer

Edited Friday at 03:54 PM by MistaMousey

[Astrophel]

I always was under the assumption that once you leave the district, that the RP action is over? The rules on this are very vague. 
However,

If this is the angle to be argued, why was “Party assist” not immediately announced? Why did we go on a manhunt to instead call “party assist” after Catto was already killed? That’s the part that makes me believe this wasn’t about RP, but more about head hunting.

That being said,

+1 for RDM warn

+1 for rules revamp

[UncleTyrone]

The server rules are very unclear about district/time limitations for party assists so I can definitely agree with Astrophel that we may need a rules revamp to make this more defined.

As for what Mordecai was saying, let's just say that Togi DID indeed witness the killing of his party member and chased catto down with a jetpack. He still waited until the very last second as catto was dying to yell his party assist which leads me to believe that he was either purposefully trying to time it the way he did (for a sit), or he forgot to yell party assist until the last second. The first scenario, in my opinion, is almost trying to loophole the timing of party assist to make it seem like a legitimate kill. The second scenario would be a truthful mistake however still RDM in my opinion. And of course, if Togi was lying and didn't witness the death then it's very very clearly RDM. I would love to see Togi's clip so that we have both points of view on this matter.

 

Edited Friday at 09:02 PM by UncleTyrone
Removed +1 for rdm

[Blue.]

2 hours ago, Astrophel said:

I always was under the assumption that once you leave the district, that the RP action is over?

The ruling isnt district based, it's rp scenario based. If you have an ongoing RP scenario its valid, but if you were to end that scenario in some way, either by moving onto another rp scenario, doing other things, or ignoring the scenario itself, then you have to drop it. 

Think of it like this: You get shot and check logs for 30 seconds to figure out who shot you. If you go hunting after that person and find them a couple minutes later after you had been hunting the whole time, that kill is yours. If you get shot, and go do something else like going to your base, or gambling or something, you can't decide a few minutes later that you NOW want to go kill them. You forfeited your chance by moving onto other scenarios. If you heard/witness the scenario, and you actively searched for them, a couple minute timeframe is no big deal.

@Mordecaiyou claim you saw a clip proving togi was chasing the entire time, can you please obtain said clip? @Togi



Regardless he failed to party assist, but I need to make it clear that the kill itself is not the issue IF togi was actively pursuing the killer he witnessed himself.

[Togi]

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/nSb6l7sBp4QATYU7P

 

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/nSb8htnLtsdCXHexl

[UncleTyrone]

Honestly, after seeing the clip and reading what Blue said, I don't think Togi is in the wrong for hunting them since he witnessed the kill and chased to avenge his party member. Like blue said he immediately started hunting after the RP scenario and did not move onto something else. Thank you for that clarification, Blue.

What I still do think matters is that Togi did not yell the party assist until catto was pretty much dead. So honestly it's looking less like RDM to me and more like he just forgot to yell his party assist until the last moment.

For that reason I do not think Togi committed straight up RDM necessarily. It's just the party yell that was delayed until death, giving catto no time to respond.

For those reasons I am now
+1 for (failrp? wasn't sure based on the guidelines but I think it should be less severe than RDM) and educating Togi on the proper time to yell party assist.

[Blue.]

Its a bit iffy here, togi chased catto horribly, had it been a bit more cut and dry with togi clearly chasing catto the whole time it'd be justified. 

Togi was not on target at all and by happenstance came across catto. At that time it makes the rp scenario feel more over. There is no current ruling about specifics of time/distance/LoS, and we are not encouraged to make unwritten rules about this sort of thing, but I do think coming up with a rule for the future might be a good idea. 

In the end they did fail to initiate party assist at the bare minimum, but this is arguably a case of RDM because the effort to hunt catto was terrible and all over the place. 

Regardless of that a warn is fair here.