Kidnap Rules Revision

[Ronsan]

Hey everyone, I'm sure a lot of people are fed up with kidnappers which is why some people always devote themselves to killing them. I also see people just use the bludgeon, even if not to try and kidnap, just to start fights and incite killing between two groups. It is still a fun to be on the kidnapper sides of things and is overall a decent mechanic for the server. I just want to take a minute and go over rules and how I would revise them.

 

All important rules from the MOTD:

"Max Kidnapping time: 5 minutes"

"Kidnapping is a default illegal activity"

"Kidnapping/Attempt to Kidnap makes you KOS"

"Kidnap bases can have 5 fading doors, 2 for main room 3 for kidnap cages."

"In order to kill your kidnap target they must be in your base first."

 

In total these are the most important rules for kidnapping, but it feels like a lot has been left out.

 

What about suicide? Is it failRP to kill yourself while in a kidnap cage, even though it gives you a 3 minute cool down on using kill in console. 

 

What about when/where can you kidnap? There is no rule stating where and when you can and can't kidnap, the only exceptions being the 3 preset public areas (Spawn, Fountain, Chill Zone) in which you find out you can't kidnap when trying to. Wouldn't it make sense that this would then apply to public bases? What about if I just walk into someones base and kidnap them out of their own base? There is nothing stopping me physically nor in the rules. Even if you're a job that can't raid it still means you're allowed to trespass and kidnap there. Even if they have a building sign, it states they can't be raided or have money making entities, doesn't mean you can't kidnap them.

 

What about same target cool down? There is a physical 5 minute or so cool down on yourself being kidnapped but raiding time is 20 minutes and mugging doesn't even have a cool down either.

 

What if the Mayor makes it legal? Can cops still KOS kidnappers even though they aren't allowed to AOS them anymore?

 

Is there a max amount for a fee that you can charge? I setup a kidnap base as preacher once and allowed people to pay 5k to kill them or 10k to release them, but there is no max so I could be charging 1m to release or else they just have to sit there for 3 minutes to kill themselves or wait 5 minutes until I have to release them.

 

Can a group of people just walk around hit people with bludgeons just to start a fight? I asked an admin before and he said if I killed someone with a bludgeon hit its not RDM, which means you could get a full 10 person party with bludgeons just hitting people to death and if they fight back you all call party defense and pull out guns. This is a huge problem because its a way for knowledgeable players just to incite a deathmatch. Example: I'm just doing my RP as a doctor in a clinic, Random Person walks into my clinic and tries to hit me with a bludgeon. My security guard shoots him, he pulls out his gun and start killing him and then everyone else in my clinic calls party defense and this whole brawl breaks out while I'm trying to RP.

 

Solutions.

 

Make a short statement stating that you can suicide while in a kidnap cage.

 

Make it so you can only kidnap in the streets/sewers/beach or just "Any area that isn't in a building."

 

Make it so you can't target the same player with kidnapping or kidnap attempt for 20 minutes same as raiding.

 

Either the Mayor should not be able to make kidnapping legal, or even if they are allowed to make it so that with this law cops must still be allowed to KOS kidnappers. The reason I bring this up so much is since cops aren't supposed to kill criminals unless they have been shot first but stunning and cuffing is great since it still unkidnaps the target.

 

Simply set that the max ransom fee be 20k or something as reasonable, maybe even require that there has to be a ransom fee.

 

Make it so using a bludgeon with no intent to kidnap or kidnapping with just the intent of starting a fight be against the rules. This is inciting RDM and no one wants that especially when there is a legitimate RP scenario happening.

 

 

Side note: While looking through the rules and referencing mugging it states you can only mug for 1k while the E menu which is how you're supposed to mug goes up to 5k.

 

 

Edit: A quick afterthought, maybe make it so when someone kidnaps they become a target or Mr. Bones so that Bones can track and kills them hopefully before they get into their base. Also maybe make it so kidnapping requires you to have the intent of bringing them back to your base.

[Yeetus]

Mayor can make kidnapping legal, but it’s still kos by default rules.

[Ronsan]

"The reason I bring this up so much is since cops aren't supposed to kill criminals"

 

Yes I know and that isn't the point.

[Walter the Assaulter]

t h e  s e r v e r  c o n t r o l s  a l l (except for the later answers)

 

What about suicide? Is it failRP to kill yourself while in a kidnap cage, even though it gives you a 3 minute cool down on using kill in console.

If the server allows you to kill yourself, you can.

What about when/where can you kidnap? There is no rule stating where and when you can and can't kidnap, the only exceptions being the 3 preset public areas (Spawn, Fountain, Chill Zone) in which you find out you can't kidnap when trying to. Wouldn't it make sense that this would then apply to public bases? What about if I just walk into someones base and kidnap them out of their own base? There is nothing stopping me physically nor in the rules. Even if you're a job that can't raid it still means you're allowed to trespass and kidnap there. Even if they have a building sign, it states they can't be raided or have money making entities, doesn't mean you can't kidnap them.

With the obvious exception of being in a sit, if the server allows you to kidnap someone, you can.

What about same target cool down? There is a physical 5 minute or so cool down on yourself being kidnapped but raiding time is 20 minutes and mugging doesn't even have a cool down either.

If you are kidnapped, the server will prevent you from being kidnapped again for something like 10 minutes. If you are kidnapping, the server will stop you from kidnapping for a while. See my above answer for more details.

What if the Mayor makes it legal? Can cops still KOS kidnappers even though they aren't allowed to AOS them anymore?

The mayor cannot make assault or killing legal. This is in the MOTD.

Is there a max amount for a fee that you can charge? I setup a kidnap base as preacher once and allowed people to pay 5k to kill them or 10k to release them, but there is no max so I could be charging 1m to release or else they just have to sit there for 3 minutes to kill themselves or wait 5 minutes until I have to release them.

The server gives you a box of goods you can make them pay for, but if you want to "manually" charge them you can do whatever.

Can a group of people just walk around hit people with bludgeons just to start a fight? I asked an admin before and he said if I killed someone with a bludgeon hit its not RDM, which means you could get a full 10 person party with bludgeons just hitting people to death and if they fight back you all call party defense and pull out guns. This is a huge problem because its a way for knowledgeable players just to incite a deathmatch. Example: I'm just doing my RP as a doctor in a clinic, Random Person walks into my clinic and tries to hit me with a bludgeon. My security guard shoots him, he pulls out his gun and start killing him and then everyone else in my clinic calls party defense and this whole brawl breaks out while I'm trying to RP.

Kill baiting is failRP and any kills because of it RDM. If you are hitting someone with the sole intent to start a fight (We know. We aren't dumb. I've been doing this for too long.), you aren't being clever. If someone's getting a big party together and doing this, I won't hesitate to remove all of them for minging.

cops aren't supposed to kill criminals unless they have been shot first

Cops can kill criminals who are a threat to public safety and legitimately threatening people's lives such as people who are raiding, kidnapping, or actively assaulting civilians. This is in the MOTD.

Make it so using a bludgeon with no intent to kidnap or kidnapping with just the intent of starting a fight be against the rules

It is. If you aren't using it to legitimately try to kidnap, you're damaging somebody for no reason. Attempted RDM.

 

 

Also maybe make it so kidnapping requires you to have the intent of bringing them back to your base.

This is a holy grail of a suggestion. I'm +1 for this so hard that I need to replace my keyboard.

[Ronsan]

Walter I really appreciate the clarifications on everything and its great that you responded to everything individually. Even if it is "In the rules" I would like it to be more apparent, I know you can quote everything and reference it all but that doesn't mean everyone can. I still spend a ton of time in the MOTD checking the situation on things.

If the server allows you to kill yourself, you can.

So with this statement are you implying that you are allowed to kill yourself to: Avoid being cuffed/arrested, Avoid being killed by a hitman or the target of any other class, Avoid dying to special classes such as Grim Reaper who is trying to reap you? At what point do we draw the line for FailRP when killing yourself, or are you saying that this situation is an exception?

 

 

Cobaselic thanks for you're response even though there is literally no where that says you can't kidnap with a building sign I've seen it happen, I've even done it, and no ones ever gotten in trouble. Being kidnapped from your own base makes absolutely no sense in the whole logistics of the situation, but I understand where you're coming from and that you're against it being changed.

 

Anyways thanks for everyone partaking in this discussion as I'm sure its been the topic of discussion before there is still a lot of hard to answer questions at least for me.

[Walter the Assaulter]

You can run into someones base and kidnap them as long as they don't have a building sign.

Building signs only protect you from being raided. Lock your doors, people.